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I will pour out My spirit on all flesh...
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on July 28, 2015, 08:15:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on July 28, 2015, 08:09:06 AM ---Ian,
You wrote:
You know, I have never read a paper from Ray about resurrection... from your reply #45 above.
In my reply #44 above, I quoted a paper from Ray on Resurrection.
As Charlie Chan would say, "Contradiction Please."
John
--- End quote ---
Well Not So Titled ie "Resurrection Paper" as in "Lake of Fire paper" if you get what I mean.. there are some papers with his thoughts in them
--- End quote ---
;D ;D ;D Well Ian, you are beginning to lose me. The paper I quoted above, how are Ray's thoughts not in it? Besides, Ray's thoughts are not the key thing. The most important things are God's thoughts as clearly expressed by the Scriptures, not our opinions as to what we think the Scriptures say.
Kat:
--- Quote ---OK forgive me for not answering that one here goes we are given GOD Like BODIES if there is such a thing seeing God is SPIRIT "And The HUMAN SHALL BECOME AS WE ARE" NOT FLESH AND BONE BUT UNSEEN "BODIES" if you want to apply BODY I can see a BODY I CANT SEE SPIRIT - perhaps we wont BE LIKE HIM we drag this tent with us - but "St PETER" WONT LET YOU IN ,IF YOU ARE REMOTELY FLESHLY
--- End quote ---
Ian this is a response you had for Alex... AFTER Christ's resurrection He said "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me" (Matt 28:18), He had obtained back the glory He had with the Father (John 17:5).... but yet He still could appear at will to His disciples (Mark 16:12, 14; Acts 7:26: 13:31; 1Cor 15:5,6,7). And Paul said Christ also appeared to Him 1Cor 15:8 when he was converted. So if He is now an invisible Spirit how was that possible? Yes the Father is invisible Spirit, but Christ was made to be a visible image of the invisible God, and this is not just speaking of His life in the flesh either.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
When Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus He spoke of 'entering' the kingdom, and being 'born' of the Spirit, that has not happened in the lives of elect, not until they are 'born' into the kingdom at Christ return and gathers them (Matt 24:31) at the first resurrection.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
v. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Do you think Jesus was saying that somebody born into the kingdom became invisible and no longer an individual? Actually Paul stated precisely what that means and he did not contradict what Jesus had said.
1Co 15:51 Lo! a sacred secret, unto you, do I declare:—we shall not, all, sleep, but we shall, all, be changed,—
v. 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet; for it shall sound, and, the dead, shall be raised, incorruptible, and, we, shall be changed.
v. 53 For this corruptible must needs clothe itself with incorruptibility, and this mortal, clothe itself, with immortality. (Rotherham)
Changed does not mean made invisible as Paul had already stated there is a "spiritual body." I used Rotherham because it uses the word "incorruptibility" which means being impervious to corruption - sin, but this means being one with God, powerful and glorious, this is how the elect will be perfected. Just as Christ appeared many times after His resurrection to His disciples, as God He had power to do whatever He so desires... you cannot limit Him and say He cannot be seen. The Father is not seen, but that is why the Son was made, to be His voice and image, always. as when "every eye shall SEE Him" (Rev 1:7).
Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And the elect will also be seen when they are ruling with Christ, they will have glorious "spiritual BODY."
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body (G4983).
G4983 sōma
Thayer Definition:
1) the body both of men or animals
1a) a dead body or corpse
1b) the living body
1b1) of animals
2) the bodies of planets and of stars (heavenly bodies)
3) is used of a (large or small) number of men closely united into one society, or family as it were; a social, ethical, mystical body
3a) so in the NT of the church
4) that which casts a shadow as distinguished from the shadow itself
So here is what is in the Scripture...
I continue to address this with you, because you have influence on this forum and your understanding on this is not what Ray taught and this a basic and fundamental principle. So you bring confusion here with your comments, because your basic way of understanding is flawed and effects the rest of what you say.
Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: Kat on July 27, 2015, 08:49:25 AM ---
Well Ian, you are hanging on to your beliefs that go totally contrary to what Ray taught. You brought up being banned before... why do you think you were? For this very teaching!
Can You actually tell me what i am "hanging on to " quoting that is incorrect or is it a case of your interpretation along with a truckload of scriptures that don't even apply and those that do you see with a fleshly mind
You are showing that either you don't understand or either just flat out don't agree with what Ray taught and those of us here also believe. Now what you want to believe is your prerogative, but you cannot bring it here... and even before you put all this up that shows how you specifically believe you were making many comments that indirectly referred to this way of thinking, that just leads to confusion for those who are trying to study what Ray taught, especially those that may be new to these teachings.
If I don't agree with certain of Rays interpretations and have the scriptures to back me up, what does that make me ? So explain where I'm wrong and have vered off the path...Ray is also under the impression that this word is effectively a giant parable as am I
Here are a few places that show exactly what Ray had taught on this.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4132.0.html -------
COMMENT; NO, neither. We are "begotten anew from above," but we are not literally born again exactly, as we are not yet powerful and invisible like "the WIND." and you honestly believe that one must appear in this state literally Neither are you "saved" in the past tense. See my paper "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!" where I discuss the "sinner's prayer" near the end and how that no Scriptures says that we are "saved" already in the past tense. This also happens when we are given a new spiritual body in our resurrection from the dead.
What is the new spiritual body ? perhaps unseen ? like the WIND ? see what I mean ?
Here is the key word to all of these misunderstandings you are having. You are talking the words of Rom. 6 literally, whereas we know that they were inspired of Christ's Holy Spirit, and these words are "spirit" (John 6:63). Notice verse 11, after Paul explains all that happens when we are spiritually baptized with Jesus, He then shows how these things apply to us: "Likewise [in like manner as Paul just explained the meaning of all these things in the previous verses]...LIKEWISE no problems
R-E-C-K-O-N you also yourselves to be DEAD INDEED TO SIN, but ALIVE unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:11). "Reckon" means to estimate, suppose, count" etc. something to BE what it is not YET fully comprehended or fully come to pass.
(emailer's comment)"...I can no longer sin........do I have to repent.........can I sin after being reborn?"
COMMENT: We will sin as long as we are living in our flesh and bones and blood bodies.
OK that counters Paul who tells us to "be ye perfect"
Yes, we must repent: "FORGIVE us our debts...." (Matt. 6:12). We are to come to the place were sin "sin shall not have DOMINION over you" (Rom. 6:14), but "if we say we have NO SIN, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is NOT IN US...if we say that we have NOT SINNED, we make HIM A LIAR, AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US" (I John 1:8-10).
100%
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2619.0.html --------------
The Spirit of Christ is eternal, and when we have the Spirit of Christ we have eternal life in us. But....BUT,
we have only the "earnest" of that spirit, and it will not keep our physical bodies from dying. But when we have the earnest of God's spirit, it is proof that there is more to come: "In Whom you also trusted after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that you believed, you were SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE. Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL [not now; not yet, but later] the redemption of the purchased POSSESSION, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).
yeah this has nothing to do with what you maintain we are resurrected into literal bodies
And that takes place at the resurrection of the saints at the last trump. One more point: although we are promised "eonian" life, nonethless, the spirit that gives us "immortality," IS ETERNAL.
and i could scripturally add, that we will be Spirit just like The Father who is SPIRIT
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1859.0.html -------------
"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. There is a NATURAL body, and there is a SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:42-45)
When it says "spiritual" it does not mean "physical." AMEN
Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD [that's natural; that's physical] CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption. AMEN
Whereas John 3:3 in the King James says "born again," it would better translated "begotten anew from above." In the Greek there is but one word for both "begotten and born." Only the context can separate the proper use. At present the Elect Saints of God have only the "earnest" of our full spiritual birth into His Kingdom: "...ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of PROMISE [a promise of a future fulfilment] Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1309.0.html ------
Is there a difference between "being Saved" and being Born Again?
Vickie
Technically yes, but practically no. Virtually all who are "born again" (Greek is probably "begotten a new" as opposed "to born again". All those begotten a new of God's Holy Spirit are destined for salvation in the First Resurrection. Whereas actual salvation does not occur until the First Resurrection. We must "endure till the end" in order to "be" saved.
TECH & PRAC MMMM, YEAH IT IS PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE ( NA... MORE LIKE IMPOSSIBLE TO MAN) AND NEITHER IS IT TECHNICALLY OR SCIENTIFICALLY POSSIBLE,
its spiritual, all of it
God be with you,
Ray
--- End quote ---
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on July 28, 2015, 08:23:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on July 28, 2015, 08:15:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on July 28, 2015, 08:09:06 AM ---Ian,
You wrote:
You know, I have never read a paper from Ray about resurrection... from your reply #45 above.
In my reply #44 above, I quoted a paper from Ray on Resurrection.
As Charlie Chan would say, "Contradiction Please."
John
--- End quote ---
Well Not So Titled ie "Resurrection Paper" as in "Lake of Fire paper" if you get what I mean.. there are some papers with his thoughts in them
--- End quote ---
;D ;D ;D Well Ian, you are beginning to lose me. The paper I quoted above, how are Ray's thoughts not in it? Besides, Ray's thoughts are not the key thing. The most important things are God's thoughts as clearly expressed by the Scriptures, not our opinions as to what we think the Scriptures say.
--- End quote ---
hA hA John desparate times hey, plainly, I Have never actually studied what Ray said on resurrection...I study my word I have read thru and check scriptures out which he uses to support certain statements, but never thought , that I need to study Ray and his interpretations
I havnt even read what you posted on behalf of Ray ;D
I'm all about Jesus
rick:
Hi Ian,
If you don’t believe Ray is right on the resurrection, how do you feel as to the rest of Rays teaching ? Is Ray correct on everyone gets saved eventually ?
Does hell exist as taught by Christendom ? Do you feel Ray is mostly wrong or mostly right ?
What do you say about the rest of Rays papers.
Just curious.
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