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Patriotism, nationalism, and statism as forms of idolatry

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repottinger:
That’s a very good question, Largeli. I completely agree with what you wrote, John, and I might add that we’re also told to be “subject unto the higher powers” because they are “sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.” As we read:

Romans 13:1-7, AKJV

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 for he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

I Peter 2:13-17, AKJV

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; 14 or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. 15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: 16 as free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. 17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

So, it would seem that things like reporting crimes to the police or making use of laws that might benefit us without compromising our faith are acceptable to God, because, in those cases, we’re “sent…into” the world, but are “not of the world,” as we would be by participating in such things as partisan politics or nationalistic or patriotic pursuits. (“13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.” [John 17:13-19, AKJV])

Thanks again for your comments,
Randy

indianabob:
[quote author=John from Kentucky link=topic=16319.msg147475#msg147475

Hi JFK ,

Declaring Roman citizenship also led to Paul being taken to Rome to spread the gospel there. So it seems that Paul's declaration had even more meaning than just his good sense. It seems that all of this was pre-planned by god.

Indiana Bob

date=1442508625]

--- Quote from: largeli on September 17, 2015, 09:52:19 AM ---
--- Quote from: repottinger on September 15, 2015, 05:39:25 PM ---You make an interesting point, Largeli, that anything, such as food, can become an idol if we put it first in our lives. I think that nationalism is different in one respect, because there is a proper place in the life of a Christian for things like eating, which are normal, necessary activities if not done to excess, but we are specifically told not to practice to any degree such things as promoting the interests of our own culture and nation above other those of other nations of this world. Thus, there is no room at all for nationalistic feelings or practices in the lives of God’s people.
Thanks a lot for your comment,
Randy

--- End quote ---

I agree with you on this. I have a question though.. Several times in the book of Acts we read about Paul declaring his Roman citizenship. He did not promote Roman culture above any other culture but he did claim his roman citizenship in order to avoid being wrongly mistreated.

What do you make of this?

--- End quote ---


It shows how smart Paul was.

In one place in the Book of Acts, Paul being in the Temple had produced a riot of the Jews in Jerusalem.

The Roman commander took Paul into Fortress Antonia to be beaten with a whip in order to find out the cause of the riot.

It was illegal under Roman law for a Roman citizen to be beaten without a trial.

Paul told the Roman commander that he was a Roman citizen, which caused the Commander not to beat Paul.

Paul used his legal rights in order not to suffer a beating.  It shows Paul was intelligent with a sound mind.
[/quote]

repottinger:
Yes, Bob, as everything is planned (as most of us here know); this particular chain of events was just much more momentous than most as far as God's plan for humanity is concerned.
Thanks,
Randy

lareli:

--- Quote from: repottinger on September 17, 2015, 06:11:51 PM ---
So, it would seem that things like reporting crimes to the police or making use of laws that might benefit us without compromising our faith are acceptable to God,

--- End quote ---

It might seem that way.. But are there any examples or instructions in Christs teachings or in the epistles that would have us call upon those who bare the sword to punish a crime? I can't think of any.. Based off what is written in the New Testament I also can't imagine Christ or Paul or any of the apostles calling upon the Roman soldiers to report a crime.

Doesn't the might of any government lie in that governments ability to punish law breakers? If a government did not have the authority to punish law breakers then wouldn't that governments laws no longer be laws but merely suggestions?

The Roman soldiers or police are those who's job it is to enforce laws by using violence (the sword) or the threat of violence. I can't imagine Christ calling upon the enforcers of mans laws to punish a violator of mans laws. I can't imagine Christ calling upon the enforcers of mans laws to punish a violator of Gods laws either.

Didn't Christ teach that we should not resist an evil man? If a man strikes me on the face and I turn the other cheek.. But then afterwards I report this man to the authorities then have I truly turned the other cheek?

Christ said if we live by the sword we will die by the sword. If I call upon the sword of the government to report a crime aren't I living by the sword?

John from Kentucky:
"...Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

Matt 22:21

Mark 12:17

Luke 20:25

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