> General Discussions
Spiritual death
Jeff:
COMMENT: When sin no longer "has dominion over you," you will know that God's Holy Spirit is operating in you. Not that you will not sin, but sin will not lord it over you; you will no longer be a slave to sin; you will not be fighting sin ever moment of your day; you will be given peace in that area of your life.
I think this pretty much settles the matter. We can't "not" sin - we are not "Jesus" - only "like" him. When sin no longer has complete control over us we will have a (great) measure of peace and confidence in our place in Christ.
I believe that I have a ways to go but I can still sense what God is changing in me.
rick:
--- Quote from: Kat on September 30, 2015, 06:49:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: Rick on September 30, 2015, 05:53:59 PM ---Well, Ray taught the reason its so easy to believe that one has free will is because God is spirit and we cannot detect Gods spirit through our 5 senses, so God is in us and around us, He is everywhere but one cannot detect God with their senses.
So, is your meaning spiritually alive as in we now have spiritual life by the indwelling of God, but if so, would it not be Gods spirit that is spiritually alive and not ours ? But Ray also taught that the spirit in us is the breathe of life which God gave Adam.
So we can say that the breathe of life and spirit of life is one in the same so how are you understanding spiritually alive ?
Ray says the spirit has no understanding, what do you say about the spirit ? Has in understanding or not ?
I know you had made mention that if one does not have the spirit of God, they cannot learn the things of God but I don’t know about that sort of thing because Rays detractors certainly knew what Ray was teaching otherwise they could not of made any retort against his teaching.
Ray also said they don’t believe the scriptures but they know what the scriptures teach but they just don’t believe what the scriptures teach.
I would agree that it takes the spirit of God to help us or to get us to believe what the scriptures
teach. Or should I say to see the gospel within the gospel, but having said that Ray taught that the gospel of Christ can be found way back in the book of Genesis when God said to Abraham, in your seed shall I bless all the nations of the earth.
I just think we throw the word spirit around to much and confuse believers by doing so.
--- End quote ---
Hi Rick, here are a few Scripture that should help you see how the Holy Spirit works. Notice that when Scripture is referring to the Holy Spirit of God it will have a capital S.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
--- End quote ---
Hi Kat,
I see in Rom 8 :16 say His Spirit bears witness with our spirit, this is what I’m talking about concerning Rays teaching on our spirit.
Ray explained to my satisfaction that our spirit as stated in Genesis 2:7
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
I believe Ray said breathe and spirit have the same meaning, but Rom 8;16 leads me to believe if Gods spirit bears witness with my spirit then my spirit has to have an intelligent’s of its own I would think.
But what intelligent’s does breathe have ? Could you clarified what scripture says and what Ray has said concerning spirit?
God bless.
Kat:
See if this helps Rick. There is repetition in these, but there is a bit of a difference in each one that can help bring it all together.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,655.0.html ------
Dear Aaron:
You are not paying attention to my writings. The consciousness is not in the body, and it is not in the spirit. The consciousness of man is in his soul, and his soul is resultant outcome of our spirit being united with a body. God breathed the breath and spirit of life into the man formed from the dust of the ground, and the man then BECAME a living soul. He BECAME conscious of his own being.
At death we are no longer conscious of our being or our death. Our spirit must be reunited with a new body in resurrection before we will regain the soul and consciousness that we had before we died.
http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm --------------------
The words "soul" and "spirit" have become corrupted through theology so that they are now used interchangeably, as if they were synonymous. They are not synonymous. There may be certain similarities between soul and spirit, but similarities do not make them one and the same.
The "soul" is the seat of sensation, consciousness, and feelings, not the body or the spirit. It is the spirit that imparts life to the body and the body then becomes a living soul (Gen. 2:7).
A thorough study of the word "soul" in the Scriptures proves that it is used of consciousness, feelings, and emotions. Hence, "sensation" is a good word to define its usage.
- souls can touch (Lev. 5:2)
- souls have knowledge (Pr. 2:10)
- souls have memory (Lam. 3:20)
- souls can love, and be joyful (Psa. 35:9; 86:4)
- souls can hunger and thirst (Deut. 14:26)
- souls can sin (Lev. 4:2)
- life can be given to a soul (Job 3:20)
- souls can die (Ezek. 18:20)
- souls can be converted (Psa. 19:7)
- none can keep alive his (own) soul (Psa. 22:29)
- honey is sweet to the soul (Pr. 16:24)
- even God has a soul (Lev. 26:11, I Sam. 2:35, Jer. 32:41)
- souls can hear (Acts 3:22-23)
- souls can experience pleasure (Heb. 10:3)
- souls can be purified (I Pet. 1:22)
- and souls can receive salvation (I Pet. 1:9).
These verses show the wide range of emotions and sensations that "souls" experience, but dead souls experience nothing in the unseen or imperceptible (hades). We need to pay close attention to the meaning of words. Hades comes from the Greek a(i)des. The a is a prefix which is equivalent to our un- and the stem -id means perceive. Thus we have UN-PERCEIVE, or imperceptible: the unseen. Etymologically, your doctrine of torment in hell falls flat on its face. From the words that God chose to call this condition of the soul after death, one thing is crystal clear: There is absolutely no perception there. And the soul has everything to do with perception and sensation as clearly seen from the verses above.
v
In Scripture, death is called a "return" [Heb. shub]. Before we were born we had no body, no soul, and no perception of any kind. At birth God gave us a body, implanted to us His spirit, which gives the body perception (through the brain and the five senses). At death, we [shub] RETURN. The reversal of what happened at birth. The spirit returns to God (Ecc. 12:7), the body returns to the dust (all the elements of man's body are found in the ground or earth) (Job 10:9, Ecc. 3:18-21), and the soul returns to no perception again (the imperceptible or unseen-hades) (Acts 2:27 and Psalm 49:15). This is what the Scriptures very plainly teach: where all that man "is" came from, that's where all that man "is" returns to.
v
TV ANALOGY
Here is an analogy that is applicable and easy to understand: God's spirit gives life to the body. Only in life does a man have consciousness or sensation. When God takes back His spirit, the body and soul are dead.
Picture a TV console as representing the human BODY with all its intricate circuitry and components.
Now picture ELECTRICITY as the invisible, powerful force representing God's life-giving SPIRIT.
Picture the blank PICTURE TUBE as representing the SOUL.
Without the electricity (God's spirit), the TV and picture tube (body and soul) are dead. All the time I hear preachers talking about our souls and our spirits as if they were one and the same. Soul and spirit are not one and the same.
Next plug in the electricity (God's spirit). The TV comes to life, and we see the picture tube (soul) animated. We see color, sound, dancing, singing, talking, intelligent conversations, all live via satellite. The dead TV becomes a living, visible, animated, intelligent entity-"Soul." But notice very carefully, the Soul (the animated picture in the TV tube) is not one of the original components. It is not a component in and by itself, but is rather the result of two other vital components, Body and Spirit (the TV console and electricity).
At bedtime I sometimes tell my daughter to give the TV a rest. When one turns off the "on/off" switch the TV goes to "sleep." The power light is still on, but the TV is blank and silent.
But now, pull the plug and take away the electricity (spirit) and what happens to the TV console (body)? It dies. It's just a box of circuits. Not even the power light is on anymore. If left unplugged it will, in time, decay and return to the dust of the ground.
And what happens to the colorful animated picture on the screen (soul) when we take away the electricity (spirit)? Want the real answer? Ask a child. Let several children watch TV together, then pull the plug and ask them where the picture went? A child will shrug his shoulders or say "I don't know" or say "It disappeared." Guess what? He is Scripturally correct on all three counts.
Without spirit there is no life and no consciousness. Without power a TV has no life and no animated picture. It's dead.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,118.0.html -----
Dear Dallas:
Is too, until recent years, referred to man as having three "components"--body, soul, and spirit. NOT TRUE. Man is made of TWO components--body and spirit. God never put a soul into Adam. The soul of man is not a component, but rather the product of two combined components, namely: body and spirit. God formed man's body out of the ground. He then breathed into this body the breath of life (spirit), and the MAN, not some separate component, but the man became a "LIVING SOUL." The soul is not the living soul, but rather the man is the living soul. There is no soul without the body of man. Understood?
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,240.0.html -------
It is true that we all speak of "THE soul" as if there is a separate entity inside of our body that is called "the soul." Not true. Without the spirit there is NO SOUL. Without the body there is NO SOUL.
Take a blue piece if transparent plastic or cellophane. Place it half way over a same size piece of yellow cellophane. You will have blue on one side, yellow on the other, and GREEN in the middle. The blue is the body, the yellow is the spirit, and the GREEN IS THE SOUL. Notice that there is NO SOUL without the blue body and the yellow spirit. Separate the blue and yellow cellophane and the GREEN soul disappears. This is exactly how the human soul must be combined with a body and spirit, or IT DOES NOT EVEN EXIST. They are very closely related and appear to overlap, but there are distinction between soul and spirit. Understood? Good.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1675.0.html ----
Dear John:
Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46; I Cor. 2:11; etc.).
There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3933.0.html ----------
We are told nothing regarding our pets except this; "For that which befalls the sons of men befalls beasts; even one thing befalls them: as the one dies, so dies the other; yes, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. "Who knows [whether] the spirit of man [men] goes upward, and [whether] the spirit of the beast goes downward to the earth?" (Ecc. 3:19-21).
At death, our spirit returns to God, but the spirit has not consciousness. The consciousness is called "soul," but the soul dies at death, and the body returns to the dust. In resurrection God puts our spirit back into a NEW body and we once again experience soul--life and animation.
Now you know as much as I do. I too lost my favorite cat a year ago.
God be with you,
Ray
rick:
--- Quote from: Kat on September 30, 2015, 09:25:26 PM ---
See if this helps Rick. There is repetition in these, but there is a bit of a difference in each one that can help bring it all together.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,655.0.html ------
Dear Aaron:
You are not paying attention to my writings. The consciousness is not in the body, and it is not in the spirit. The consciousness of man is in his soul, and his soul is resultant outcome of our spirit being united with a body. God breathed the breath and spirit of life into the man formed from the dust of the ground, and the man then BECAME a living soul. He BECAME conscious of his own being.
At death we are no longer conscious of our being or our death. Our spirit must be reunited with a new body in resurrection before we will regain the soul and consciousness that we had before we died.
http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm --------------------
The words "soul" and "spirit" have become corrupted through theology so that they are now used interchangeably, as if they were synonymous. They are not synonymous. There may be certain similarities between soul and spirit, but similarities do not make them one and the same.
The "soul" is the seat of sensation, consciousness, and feelings, not the body or the spirit. It is the spirit that imparts life to the body and the body then becomes a living soul (Gen. 2:7).
A thorough study of the word "soul" in the Scriptures proves that it is used of consciousness, feelings, and emotions. Hence, "sensation" is a good word to define its usage.
- souls can touch (Lev. 5:2)
- souls have knowledge (Pr. 2:10)
- souls have memory (Lam. 3:20)
- souls can love, and be joyful (Psa. 35:9; 86:4)
- souls can hunger and thirst (Deut. 14:26)
- souls can sin (Lev. 4:2)
- life can be given to a soul (Job 3:20)
- souls can die (Ezek. 18:20)
- souls can be converted (Psa. 19:7)
- none can keep alive his (own) soul (Psa. 22:29)
- honey is sweet to the soul (Pr. 16:24)
- even God has a soul (Lev. 26:11, I Sam. 2:35, Jer. 32:41)
- souls can hear (Acts 3:22-23)
- souls can experience pleasure (Heb. 10:3)
- souls can be purified (I Pet. 1:22)
- and souls can receive salvation (I Pet. 1:9).
These verses show the wide range of emotions and sensations that "souls" experience, but dead souls experience nothing in the unseen or imperceptible (hades). We need to pay close attention to the meaning of words. Hades comes from the Greek a(i)des. The a is a prefix which is equivalent to our un- and the stem -id means perceive. Thus we have UN-PERCEIVE, or imperceptible: the unseen. Etymologically, your doctrine of torment in hell falls flat on its face. From the words that God chose to call this condition of the soul after death, one thing is crystal clear: There is absolutely no perception there. And the soul has everything to do with perception and sensation as clearly seen from the verses above.
v
In Scripture, death is called a "return" [Heb. shub]. Before we were born we had no body, no soul, and no perception of any kind. At birth God gave us a body, implanted to us His spirit, which gives the body perception (through the brain and the five senses). At death, we [shub] RETURN. The reversal of what happened at birth. The spirit returns to God (Ecc. 12:7), the body returns to the dust (all the elements of man's body are found in the ground or earth) (Job 10:9, Ecc. 3:18-21), and the soul returns to no perception again (the imperceptible or unseen-hades) (Acts 2:27 and Psalm 49:15). This is what the Scriptures very plainly teach: where all that man "is" came from, that's where all that man "is" returns to.
v
TV ANALOGY
Here is an analogy that is applicable and easy to understand: God's spirit gives life to the body. Only in life does a man have consciousness or sensation. When God takes back His spirit, the body and soul are dead.
Picture a TV console as representing the human BODY with all its intricate circuitry and components.
Now picture ELECTRICITY as the invisible, powerful force representing God's life-giving SPIRIT.
Picture the blank PICTURE TUBE as representing the SOUL.
Without the electricity (God's spirit), the TV and picture tube (body and soul) are dead. All the time I hear preachers talking about our souls and our spirits as if they were one and the same. Soul and spirit are not one and the same.
Next plug in the electricity (God's spirit). The TV comes to life, and we see the picture tube (soul) animated. We see color, sound, dancing, singing, talking, intelligent conversations, all live via satellite. The dead TV becomes a living, visible, animated, intelligent entity-"Soul." But notice very carefully, the Soul (the animated picture in the TV tube) is not one of the original components. It is not a component in and by itself, but is rather the result of two other vital components, Body and Spirit (the TV console and electricity).
At bedtime I sometimes tell my daughter to give the TV a rest. When one turns off the "on/off" switch the TV goes to "sleep." The power light is still on, but the TV is blank and silent.
But now, pull the plug and take away the electricity (spirit) and what happens to the TV console (body)? It dies. It's just a box of circuits. Not even the power light is on anymore. If left unplugged it will, in time, decay and return to the dust of the ground.
And what happens to the colorful animated picture on the screen (soul) when we take away the electricity (spirit)? Want the real answer? Ask a child. Let several children watch TV together, then pull the plug and ask them where the picture went? A child will shrug his shoulders or say "I don't know" or say "It disappeared." Guess what? He is Scripturally correct on all three counts.
Without spirit there is no life and no consciousness. Without power a TV has no life and no animated picture. It's dead.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,118.0.html -----
Dear Dallas:
Is too, until recent years, referred to man as having three "components"--body, soul, and spirit. NOT TRUE. Man is made of TWO components--body and spirit. God never put a soul into Adam. The soul of man is not a component, but rather the product of two combined components, namely: body and spirit. God formed man's body out of the ground. He then breathed into this body the breath of life (spirit), and the MAN, not some separate component, but the man became a "LIVING SOUL." The soul is not the living soul, but rather the man is the living soul. There is no soul without the body of man. Understood?
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,240.0.html -------
It is true that we all speak of "THE soul" as if there is a separate entity inside of our body that is called "the soul." Not true. Without the spirit there is NO SOUL. Without the body there is NO SOUL.
Take a blue piece if transparent plastic or cellophane. Place it half way over a same size piece of yellow cellophane. You will have blue on one side, yellow on the other, and GREEN in the middle. The blue is the body, the yellow is the spirit, and the GREEN IS THE SOUL. Notice that there is NO SOUL without the blue body and the yellow spirit. Separate the blue and yellow cellophane and the GREEN soul disappears. This is exactly how the human soul must be combined with a body and spirit, or IT DOES NOT EVEN EXIST. They are very closely related and appear to overlap, but there are distinction between soul and spirit. Understood? Good.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1675.0.html ----
Dear John:
Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46; I Cor. 2:11; etc.).
There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3933.0.html ----------
We are told nothing regarding our pets except this; "For that which befalls the sons of men befalls beasts; even one thing befalls them: as the one dies, so dies the other; yes, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. "Who knows [whether] the spirit of man [men] goes upward, and [whether] the spirit of the beast goes downward to the earth?" (Ecc. 3:19-21).
At death, our spirit returns to God, but the spirit has not consciousness. The consciousness is called "soul," but the soul dies at death, and the body returns to the dust. In resurrection God puts our spirit back into a NEW body and we once again experience soul--life and animation.
Now you know as much as I do. I too lost my favorite cat a year ago.
God be with you,
Ray
--- End quote ---
Hi Kat,
Ray gives a totally awesome explanation here, the soul is the seat of our emotions and intelligent’s or our perception.
So what Im understanding now which might sound crazy but God gives our body His Spirit and then we become a living soul, who we are is found in the soul, our personality is in the soul which is a result of the two components ,body and spirit together produce soul.
Kat, there is always another question to be asked, this spirit that God imparts to all living creatures whether humans or beast both have the save life giving spirit, both come from the earth and both return to the earth in death or also called the return when God takes back His spirit.
When God calls us and imparts His spirit in us, is this a different spirit He imparts to our soul than the spirit that gives our body life when we become a living soul ?
If so, I think I understand how we can now live or have spiritual life now. To my understanding now I would think God is putting His Spirit in our soul, which is where we learn or in other words the seat of our soul. So now I see its possible to live a spiritual life even though we are carnal.
Does that make sense to you ?
Colin:
What a wonderful “classroom” tool we have in this forum. The wealth of material we have to draw upon from Ray’s writings and the opportunities to enhance or correct each other’s viewpoints is something worth treasuring. Different aspects of the topic have been raised and they afford, like the scripture models, “here a little, there a little” as we seek answers.
At times a clear “NO” helps to clarify a puzzling proposition….just as Jesus replied at times (Luke 13:3 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.)
Putting forward questions, which might seem doubtful can elicit answers, which illustrate other facets and help all of us in our quest. I thank you all for your contributions.
I began this thread with reference to Ray’s LOF part 4, where he elaborated on the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11ff). This parable forms part of a sequence of parables; back in chapter 13, Jesus was teaching on the Sabbath in one of the synagogues (v10) and He raised the question about the kingdom of God (v18). He “explained” with two parables. Thereafter, He went travelling and further parables are mentioned. We are then told of a visit to the house of a Pharisee, where after a confrontation about healing on the Sabbath, Jesus spoke a parable in regard to humility.
In Luke 14:14 there is a direct reference to the first resurrection, leading into another parable, which is reminiscent of Matthew 22:4.
In Luke 15:10 we see the point of the preceding short parables (of lost sheep, of ten pieces of silver). It mentions the joy over the repentance of just one sinner. Then Jesus launched into the parable of the prodigal son, which expands on that same theme. Those same feelings of joy are found in Luke 15:24.
As I understand it, the prodigal son (who represents us all, at different stages of our life and conversion) “came to himself” as Ray showed us in his LOF part 4, under the subtitle Destroyed, Perished and Lost…… an extract:-
[You all know the story contained in the parable of the Prodigal son so I won’t read it all, but let me give you the "truth" of this parable.
God is the "Father" in this parable, and the Prodigal is EVERY SON WHO HAS GONE ASTRAY. "And when he had spent all ... And when he came to himself ... I will arise and go to my father ... I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight ... And am no more worthy to be called thy son ... But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. And bring hither the fatted calf ... For this my son was DEAD, and is alive again; he was LOST, and is found. And they began to be merry" (Luke 15:14-23).
This man SINNED, he was LOST, and he SPIRITUALLY DIED! Do we ALL spiritually DIE? ]
The whole world has “gone astray”. This parable of the prodigal son highlights the person “coming to himself”, as a turning point. He was contemplating and had perceived what he had been, had become and thought of the alternative relief and blessings he might have. The picture is of the initial stages of repentance, which becomes evident to those to whom it is given to understand what Jesus was getting at.
Luke 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
The Greek word translated “dead” is without the definite article and carries the sense of someone who was once alive, but is now alive no longer: i.e. a dead person, as distinct from a dead body.
The Greek translated as “lost” is apollumi and we are grateful for Ray’s explanation of that word and of its implication, which he gives us in part 4.
The prodigal son was neither literally dead, nor had literally perished; my understanding is that it is describing someone as being “spiritually without life and lost”. That applied to us, in describing our situation prior to being “dragged” to learn the truth and to then set out on our journey through our remaining days here on earth, as a “work in progress”. I am grateful for all of the many replies to my post - they have provided many avenues of thought, so that we grasp the subject better.
I see a connection to Paul’s words in:-
Philip 2:3 KJV Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
The Concordant renders it as…..
Philippians 2 : CLV 3 nothing according with faction, nor yet according with vainglory - but with humility, deeming one another superior to one's self, 4 not each noting that which is his own, but each that of others also." 5 For let this disposition be in you, which is in Christ Jesus also,
This applies to the rest of our life, as we are being prepared for the “big job” ahead, to be involved with the rest of mankind. They, too, need to become like the prodigal son and “come to themselves” with a realisation that they were also “dead” spiritually…..but were not aware of it.
Philip 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For [because] it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
As with all parables, to accept the idea that everything in them ought to be seen as literal would be to make a mistake. Part 4 of the LOF makes that clear; Ray’s title….Understanding Spiritual Things … and his opening paragraphs notify us of that.
Ray also alerted us to the fact that the apostle Paul used parables, having been taught by Jesus. When we read 1Cor 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily, we know that he did not actually “die” every day, although he had many perilous encounters. So, in what manner did he “die”? What sort of death was he talking about?
Here’s another passage where Paul mentioned the idea of being “dead”…..
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
In another verse, Paul meant us to understand that we consider ourselves “dead” toward or not wanting to live in sin.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Although we are certainly not yet resurrected, Paul had the same idea in mind when he wrote…..
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Well, I wouldn’t be writing this if I were literally dead. The idea of our “being dead” is to be understood in relation to our desires to “feed our carnality”, as Paul elaborates two verses later….
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify [put to death] therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
That applies to us all….me too.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off [Greek apekduomai = divest wholly] the old man with his deeds;
There is a passage where we find the link of dying in this lifetime of ours, in conjunction with the Spirit. I think this is where we can construct the concept of “spiritual death”.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
We can’t do that for and by ourselves….it is thanks to God that we can strive for this “spiritual mortifying”. I think this is what Ray pointed to when he wrote about the prodigal son and coupled it with Hebrews 9:27.
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
I am off to reread parts 3 and 6 of the LOF series (which deal with judgment) to “brush up” and get an even clearer picture. Colin
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