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Author Topic: God's Voice  (Read 4780 times)

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Jeff

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God's Voice
« on: October 01, 2015, 10:43:35 PM »

I know that God speaks to us primarily through the Scriptures, but I was wondering if anyone has the occasion to know when God is prompting them, or maybe put more aptly, do you ever know the difference between your own thoughts and when God might be saying something to you directly?  I apologize if this naive but I don't have a clear understanding.  God is mostly silent in this age and while I pray about it constantly, I've never been sure if God would even be talking to me, or prompting me to think about something.  God is logical, and so logically, I suspect that the thoughts in my head are my own.  I hope this makes sense.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 02:09:53 AM »

I know that God speaks to us primarily through the Scriptures, but I was wondering if anyone has the occasion to know when God is prompting them, or maybe put more aptly, do you ever know the difference between your own thoughts and when God might be saying something to you directly?  I apologize if this naive but I don't have a clear understanding.  God is mostly silent in this age and while I pray about it constantly, I've never been sure if God would even be talking to me, or prompting me to think about something.  God is logical, and so logically, I suspect that the thoughts in my head are my own.  I hope this makes sense.

Hi Jeff, this is an interesting subject.

I believe that part of how God instructs us is by slowly giving us the ability to discern between good and evil. The grace of God by way of His spirit teaches us to deny ungodliness and shows us what is good and right to do. There is a big difference between the thoughts of men and the thought of God but slowly our thoughts are transformed as our minds and hearts are changed until we come to that measure of stature of the fullness of Christ. To make it painfully obvious in the differences of thought just think of what the carnal mind desires and does and compare it to the mind of Christ. Now you know the difference between your thoughts and God's.

Hebrews 5:13-14
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Speaking of David:

2 Samual 14:16-17
16 For the king will hear, to deliver his handmaid out of the hand of the man that would destroy me and my son together out of the inheritance of God.
17 Then thine handmaid said, The word of my lord the king shall now be comfortable: for as an angel of God, so is my lord the king to discern good and evil: therefore the Lord thy God will be with thee.

1 Kings 3:5-12
5 In Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.
6 And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
7 And now, O Lord my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
8 And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.
9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and evil: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
10 And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.
11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

I do believe this is how the spirit of God works in us, that still small voice--Giving us the ability to discern between good and evil.

1 Kings 19:9-12
9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the Lord came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
10 And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:
12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

By way of the holy spirit we begin to understand what God is teaching us (discerning between good and evil) and so we can see where God is indeed 'prompting' us because without Him we could never have been drawn this close.

God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 02:17:11 AM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Dave in Tenn

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2015, 04:16:03 AM »

I've never heard an audible voice from God 'prompting' me to do anything, though I have "heard" a "voice" on many occasions.

To add to Alex's post:

We're told to ask for wisdom.  I'd give you that as a short-cut, but it's really no short-cut at all.  Because the Lord will give wisdom in His own time and in His own way.  Sometimes it may be with an open bible, and sometimes it won't.  Patience and long-suffering are fruit of the Spirit.

"Wisdom is justified of her children."  Put another way, wisdom is made to be wisdom by its results.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.   

I'll give you another short cut that isn't a short-cut at all either.  If what I am thinking is different than what I have been thinking, is it better?  If it is, then it is of God.  That has 'worked' for me a number of times, but often takes a while before it becomes evident whether or not is really IS better.





 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Kat

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2015, 10:41:47 AM »


Hi Jeff, like the others were saying I think that God's Spirit works in us as discernment, and that is not through the 5 senses, but in the mind. It's effects how we think and reason and our attitude. It is the carnal mind decreasing and the mind of Christ increasing.

John 3:30  He must increase, but I must decrease.

I think it is a slow process, I don't remember really having a sense of the Spirit working for a long time after my eyes were opened to this truth. But we must constantly feed the Spirit within, that it may grow strong in us.

John 6:51  I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."

What I believe Christ is saying here is that just as physical food nourishes our physical body, so spiritual food, that comes from Christ, nourishes us spiritually.... and that comes from study of the Word, meditation on the spiritual and pray. The more we dwell on spiritual matters, the more we come out of the world.

Php 4:6  Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;
v. 7  and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
v. 8  Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Jeff

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2015, 04:09:52 PM »

Kat, Dave, Alex,

Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated.

The Holy Spirit is quick to let me know when I'm being carnal.  God has done much in me over the years to correct my behavior and "...make straight my paths..." Prov 3:6.

This is probably closer to what you wrote Dave "the still, small voice."  But it's more than that too.  Literally - many, many times, every single day, I ask God to fill my heart with His desires and my mind with His thoughts for me. I think walking in the Spirit requires that.  But the past 6 months of my life have been uniquely difficult.  Everyone's are, I just mean, something is going on that I don't quite understand yet.

I have this thought stuck in my head, and it's the first thing on my mind in the morning and the last thing at night.  I'm trying to kill that thought and am not having success.  I pray about it dozens of times a day.  It's really more of a hope, that I want to go away.  It's not something carnal, rather it would be a gift from God (that only He could give), but all things being equal, I don't think God would want this for me, but it's just a guess and I may not understand.

I just can't figure out if the thought is from God, the Adversary, or something that's just mine alone.  It's tormenting me, but it also may be there for a purpose.  We all talk about long-suffering and that's something that I'm not good at, and this thought may be there in order for me to be tried in the fire - more.

I pray for wisdom, peace of mind, God's direction, that God would remove the thought, or help me understand it, but it continues without much change.

That's when I go back to asking for God's will in my life and leave it at that.

But I think when our hearts are right, and we understand that only God's will matters, it's ok to ask for something specifically.  I recall Ray saying in one of his studies "Ok, God, If you want me to move to Mobile, then help me find a house that's just right" (paraphrased probably) and then he found that house a few minutes later.

I miss Ray.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 07:43:34 PM by Jeff »
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Colin

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2015, 10:52:35 PM »

Hi Jeff

When I read the contributions to this thread, I was amazed by the “co-incidence” of having been semi-awake early this morning and having thoughts running around my brain, as the saying goes; I had been dwelling on the prodigal son parable which I referred to in a recent post on spiritual death.   And also to thoughts I had earlier expressed about Elihu’s address to Job – now to be found in the “general discussions”.

With the mention of Solomon and his experiences, I once again am pondering the methods whereby God, who is spirit, communicates with our spirit…..influencing our thought patterns.
1 Kings 3:5 In Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.   

I do not imagine that God appeared as an “apparition” at the foot of Solomon’s bed, speaking audibly - although the KJV use of the word “said” tends to imply that.    It tells us that Solomon had a dream and by means of communication to and with our spirit/mind, which God knows how to employ, Solomon was able to request from God. 

This reminds me of Elihu’s address to Job, where he mentions a similar situation…..about the “voice of God”.
Job 33:12  Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.
Job 33:13  Why dost thou strive against him? for he giveth not account of any of his matters.
Job 33:14  For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.
Job 33:15  In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;
Job 33:16  Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,
Job 33:17  That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man. 

As I had mentioned, on numerous occasions, after having read and contemplated some of Ray’s articles/transcripts prior to retiring to bed - the next morning, as I am slowly awakening, I have had a clarification come to me at times, of what I had been reading and thinking about the previous day/evening. 
So I wonder, seeing that correction/instruction (Job 33:16) can be “transferred” to man’s mind, then why might not the same means be used for clarification and also transference of thoughts such as Solomon’s in seeking for wisdom.    God, the father of spirits, (Hebrews 12:9) the Creator of spirits, must be the “Expert” in communicating with us, in directing our thoughts as we volunteer to be led by Him.    God “looks upon the heart”….not like a surgeon about to perform literal surgery, but He knows our thoughts and desires.
Mat 6:8  Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Ray told us that he “prayed without ceasing”, as he went about his daily routine, explaining that his thoughts were “attuned to God”.   That’s a good habit to follow.   

When I think back to the parable of the prodigal son, I thought about the man “coming to himself”.  What made him analyse his wretched predicament ….his own “cleverness”?   Don’t think so - it was his own cleverness which got him into the mess in the first place.   We know in the parable that his physical father was a type of God the Father; we also know that our road to repentance has its starting point with God opening our eyes…..our “spiritual eyes” - and in granting us repentance.   We just aren’t able to do it by ourselves.    It needs an “outside/external” spiritual influence working on our spirit/mind.   
Philip 2:13  For it is God which worketh [Greek energeo  = is active and efficient] in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Our wills are being “worked on” by God….I feel that is by means of a “Spirit to spirit connection”.   And that “small voice of God” is there if we are sensitive and volunteer to respond to it.   

It is miraculous how God unifies us in spirit, as we strive, desiring to become the "bride", with our thoughts in agreement with the "bridegroom".    No other mix would endure.       Colin

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Jeff

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2015, 01:10:56 AM »

Colin,

I really appreciate what you wrote and I identify with the way you think.  Those early morning hours must be a time when we're not so concerned about "self" and possibly more open to God's prompting.  I'm constantly trying to stop focusing on "me" and be connected to our Creator, but it's a fruitless effort on my own.  God drags me before I finally understand. The flesh is such a hindrance.

I think about the story of Job often.  It's a good lesson from the physical perspective, but it also reminds us of Jesus' tribulation. 

We're reminded that we have ministering Messangers in our midst,

Luke 10:40 "For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over you, to keep..."
Hebrews 4:7 'Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”'
Psalms 34:7 "The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them." 

When God creates a being who in part is intended to share God's instruction with us, we can be sure that He's always watching over us.

As God said and you referenced:
Matthew 6:8 "Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

This is something I think about every day.  Do I need to pray for something specific when God knows far better what I need?  Probably not, although I think it's possibly more a matter of faith, and hope is an important aspect of our faith.

Hebrew 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

I think this probably refers to salvation primarily but we can apply Scripture in all areas of our lives.

I think you're right that God works in us in a number of ways, Scripture, our thought life, in the circumstances we experience, the people who cross our path, and probably far more than I know.

I think it's profound in the way God chooses to impact our lives. It seems rare that He just directs our thoughts, but rather chooses to bring us through the challenges He sets before us - trying us through fire. It makes sense to me that rather than skirting around some issue, He wants us to experience, and sweat through the obstacles.

God is perfect and just.

It's interesting to me that the more I seek God, the more He uses the early morning hours to instruct me, and let me know that He's there. it's becoming a very important time in my day.

Our Creator is so much more than we can possibly understand and yet He desires to bring us into His family.  We were created for the express purpose of being part of Him. I can't imagine anything more important.

I think one reason God gives us a spirit (other than it makes us alive) is that it's the way He communicates with us.

It's all so perfect, that it makes me want to hide out of shame in my carnal nature, but I also know that He wants us to "draw near to Him"

James 4:8 "Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded."

Being unified with God, I think, is our sole purpose.

Peace,
Jeff





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Rick

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2015, 02:27:32 AM »

Hi Jeff,

I find God teaches me things in scripture , through Rays writings and my experiences in life, I think when one has thoughts about sins in their life or when we are doing things that don’t lead to spiritual life I believe those thoughts are prompted by the Holy Spirit.

I feel that my sins are a great part of my relationship with God, first the physical then the spiritual, we start off with a carnal mind, the carnal mind hates God, wants to be in charge, a god until itself.

It takes a miracle by God for us to not want to be a god until ourselves, God walks us out of carnality and as He does this we become aware of our sins and this is our relationship with our creator.

Now we desire not to sin and so we put forth the effort only to discover we are powerless to live righteously before God, God makes sure we understand this, remember, no one can boast.

When scripture says put on the mind of Christ, it does not happen all at once, its God who puts on the mind of Christ in us by the Holy Spirit who prompts our thoughts and then one discovers its God teaching them.

When I’m angry with someone, the carnal mind wants revenge, but when my thoughts are about forgiving that person and I start to think I am no better than that person and that person is under the same law as me, cause and effect I know this is the Holy Spirit leading me in those thoughts.

God is God, He can teach us by any means, I find all the circumstances in my life God uses to teach me, to get me to think about what I’m doing, why I’m doing it and leads me in a better way than I could ever lead myself.

Through this process we decrease and He increases and God becomes the God in our temple but this takes a life time Jeff, its all done in Gods time, and that teaches us patience to wait upon God.

Whatever I’m going through I have to go through it, there are many things I don’t want to go through but its those things that teach me the most.

There is only one way and that is Gods way except here its Gods way and there is no highway, God rules us through our circumstances.

P.s. just when you think you got it together you screw it up and God lets you know He gets it together for you, He will cause His to follow.  :)

 
God bless.
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Jeff

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2015, 03:13:57 AM »

Amen brother! You have the Spirit of God guiding you. :)
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Arion

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2015, 09:16:38 AM »


I just can't figure out if the thought is from God, the Adversary, or something that's just mine alone.  It's tormenting me, but it also may be there for a purpose. 


It really doesn't matter in the long run.  Don't stress out about it because that is something that the adversary can do.

It's simple.  God is either in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you can think and everything that you do or he is not in control of all these things in your life.  Which one of these opposites is true?  That, I believe is what it means to have child like faith.  Since God IS in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you think ect, then all the hand wringing is unproductive and harmful.

If you think about it, since God is our Father just what do we have to worry about?  Not only is God our Father but our elder brother is always making intercession for us before the throne of grace and mercy.  Does a little child holding to his Father's hand worry about all these things?  We are little children and our Father is holding our hand.  Whatever we do or think God is in control even if we drift off into disobedience from time to time.  In the end it will all be good. 

Easier said than done I know because even your stressing about these things right now is part of God's plan [right now] for you and even admonitions to the contrary won't bear fruit for you until it's your time to understand it and walk in it.  The areas you struggle with are probably areas that I don't and the things I struggle with are things that you don't have a problem with.  It's all of God and will all be good in the end.  It is enough.....
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Rick

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2015, 10:55:48 AM »



It's simple.  God is either in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you can think and everything that you do or he is not in control of all these things in your life. 


That’s really where its at. Do you believe the scriptures.
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Jeff

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2015, 06:23:46 PM »


I just can't figure out if the thought is from God, the Adversary, or something that's just mine alone.  It's tormenting me, but it also may be there for a purpose. 


It really doesn't matter in the long run.  Don't stress out about it because that is something that the adversary can do.

It's simple.  God is either in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you can think and everything that you do or he is not in control of all these things in your life.  Which one of these opposites is true?  That, I believe is what it means to have child like faith.  Since God IS in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you think ect, then all the hand wringing is unproductive and harmful.

If you think about it, since God is our Father just what do we have to worry about?  Not only is God our Father but our elder brother is always making intercession for us before the throne of grace and mercy.  Does a little child holding to his Father's hand worry about all these things?  We are little children and our Father is holding our hand.  Whatever we do or think God is in control even if we drift off into disobedience from time to time.  In the end it will all be good. 

Easier said than done I know because even your stressing about these things right now is part of God's plan [right now] for you and even admonitions to the contrary won't bear fruit for you until it's your time to understand it and walk in it.  The areas you struggle with are probably areas that I don't and the things I struggle with are things that you don't have a problem with.  It's all of God and will all be good in the end.  It is enough.....

I believe the Scriptures.

Is God in control of my stress or am I? :)
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Colin

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2015, 10:42:12 PM »

Hi All

We have all read Paul’s account in Romans 7, where in verses 14 through to 24, we can “hear” him expressing his frustration at how he battles with the things he has a natural tendency to do, versus what he knows are the godly pursuits.    He echoes exactly what we encounter and how we feel.   Not one of us is any different, since we all possess carnal nature and a spiritually feeble heart.

I checked the Concordant version but found it was no better than the KJV….many stilted expressions, so maybe we can express it better in our own modern day speech…..exactly as Jeff and others have done, in sharing our exasperation and dissatisfaction with what we keep doing and/or thinking.   

If Paul spoke our language he would be saying much the same as we do….such as  “I know what I ought to be doing, and thinking; I should be feeling confident that God will “see me through it all”- but somehow negative ideas keep overwhelming me”. 

 We’re in the “same club” as Paul.  He was reacting the same way as we do…you can hear him, in utter frustration, saying,  “what a miserable wretch I am…how am I ever going to rise above behaving this way”?
Some might wrongly conclude he felt he had a “split personality” and dismiss him as schizophrenic.  There is indeed a battle for our minds and our innate carnality is hostile towards God.     Realising this led Paul to ask in anguish, where’s the way out of this for him… and for us?   
Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

His answer?  It’s in the next verse.

The idea of “split personality” might be a legitimate description.  We all have our carnality, however those of us being “worked with” by God are in now possession of another spirit dwelling within us.   And one is “at war” with the other.  The good news is, we know which one is ultimately going to be the victor.
Php_1:6  Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [Greek epiteleo  = fulfil completely] it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Rom_8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
What makes it “uncomfortable” is that we are the battleground.    And won’t it be a relief when “peace” is declared?   And peace is going to be established….by the Peacemaker.

I was looking at what Paul wrote to the Ephesians, who were basically Gentiles.  We can view them as a parable, in a way….let me explain why I think that way…
They, in their unconverted state, like everybody, were aliens toward God and His ways.   Paul reminds the saints in Ephesus that they, too, used to be opposed to God…..in other words, carnal.
Eph 2:2  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3  Among whom also we all had our conversation conduct in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

“Children of wrath”…..that involves enmity, as I am beginning to see it.    Paul goes on to say (verse 13) that Jesus Christ is the One who abolishes such enmity……in stages.  Then I kept reading…..
Eph_2:15  Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

What is the “twain”?   Commentaries answer “the Jew and Gentile”.   But, what can those two (twain) represent? 

I see it as the two natures….of the “true Jew” – the one who is one inwardly (Romans 2:29) as compared to the nature of an unconverted carnal mind (represented by the hostile Gentile). 
Eph_2:16  And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Christ is going to reconcile both  - the “twain”…..not just physical races, but I think,(as a parable) the natures represented by them; by subduing and conquering the hostile carnal nature in all and bringing all into unity with God’s spirit.   

The enmity (the carnal spirit) is to be slain……put to death…. Another aspect of “spiritual death”.

We are to become transformed from our “allegiance to” the world and its carnal values. 
Rom 12:2  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Jas_4:4  Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Who does the transforming/renewing?  The Peacemaker and (through Him) access by the Holy Spirit to the Father (Ephes. 2: 15, 18).   
 
Hope that “stitches together” a few thoughts, and provides an opportunity to “unearth some more scriptural gems”.      ( Pardon the mixed metaphors.)     Colin
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Rick

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2015, 11:33:40 PM »


I just can't figure out if the thought is from God, the Adversary, or something that's just mine alone.  It's tormenting me, but it also may be there for a purpose. 


It really doesn't matter in the long run.  Don't stress out about it because that is something that the adversary can do.

It's simple.  God is either in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you can think and everything that you do or he is not in control of all these things in your life.  Which one of these opposites is true?  That, I believe is what it means to have child like faith.  Since God IS in control of everything that happens to you, every thought that you think ect, then all the hand wringing is unproductive and harmful.

If you think about it, since God is our Father just what do we have to worry about?  Not only is God our Father but our elder brother is always making intercession for us before the throne of grace and mercy.  Does a little child holding to his Father's hand worry about all these things?  We are little children and our Father is holding our hand.  Whatever we do or think God is in control even if we drift off into disobedience from time to time.  In the end it will all be good. 

Easier said than done I know because even your stressing about these things right now is part of God's plan [right now] for you and even admonitions to the contrary won't bear fruit for you until it's your time to understand it and walk in it.  The areas you struggle with are probably areas that I don't and the things I struggle with are things that you don't have a problem with.  It's all of God and will all be good in the end.  It is enough.....

I believe the Scriptures.

Is God in control of my stress or am I? :)

Good question, would you believe me if I said both. we do have our role too. Although we are not responsible we are accountable.  :)
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Jeff

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2015, 04:51:04 PM »

Colin - What you wrote was very well thought out.  I'm going to do some reading along the same line.  I appreciate you sharing that.

Just a few thoughts about this thread:

I do understand that we aren't to just float along expecting God to do everything.  We have to treat people with respect, be as obedient as possible, read Scripture, pray, etc.  We have responsibilities (or accountabilities I suppose it would be) and Scripture is clear about that - we have to "try".  But I wonder if being accountable necessarily involves controlling how we feel. 

I'm genetically predisposed to certain traits.  The more scientists and doctors learn about the human brain the more they find that we aren't always "choosing" to "think" or "be".  Our bodies are controlled by chemical and electrical processes.  When the chemicals aren't functioning then the electrical impulses are affected.  I'm not saying that we aren't accountable - we certainly are - but God created us - uniquely.  Have you ever tried to get a song out of your head?  Often the harder you try the more annoying it becomes.  I don't have Schizophrenia so I can't say what it's like, but from what I do know, those who do have it, don't want it.  Their ability to function in this world is seriously diminished.

We have control over our attitude (most of us) but depression, and other forms of mental illness, affect the way a person thinks, and can have a great deal of influence on behavior.  I've been dealing with clinical depression for 40 years, and it certainly has had an impact in my life.  It's controlled for the most part but I'm still very aware of it.  God could heal that but hasn't.  He could heal all of our illnesses, but He doesn't.  We're to live with them and accept them for what they are, and we have to accept that some people in the world, even though trying to walk with God, are disabled.  Our God is patient with us, thankfully, but I often wonder if my ability to hear God's voice (not-out-loud) is impaired because of the depression.

Philippians 4:6-7 doesn't necessarily say "don't be anxious".  In the KJV they use the word "careful" instead of anxious.  Anxious, for some reason, sounds like a choice, but it's not always a choice.  Anxiety arises from hormones like adrenaline and cortisol, that are related to stress.  If those chemicals aren't functioning they way they're supposed to, it's pretty difficult to fight them.  Impossible, really, because that's what those hormones are for - they control "us".  They're designed to do that.  If they aren't working they don't control us in a good way. I think that the word "careful" likely has a different connotation.

If I'm "care"ful of nothing as the KJV says I think that "can" be a choice.  For example, I shouldn't care whether I'm financially wealthy, as God provides all.  All things "...are out from Him..." John 16:28 and I would venture to guess mental illness would be included.  How do our brains become this way, if we don't come out from God, in this manner?

Our time is short, we're vapor (James 4:14), but it sure doesn't feel short. And it only is when compared to eternity.

Sorry.  I didn't mean for this to be so long.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 05:00:32 PM by Jeff »
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John from Kentucky

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2015, 06:59:33 PM »

Philipians 4:6 says and means:

Do not worry about anything CLV version

As supported by other Scriptures that say for us not to worry because we cannot change the color of our hair or our height, by our own thoughts.

The Great God controls all.  The Scriptures say little birds do not die without His leave.
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Jeff

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2015, 07:16:06 PM »

Worry isn't necessarily correct either. 

Matthew 6:31 (KJV) uses the same Greek word for "thought" that is used for careful and anxious.

Therefore take no thought (merrimnao).  I don't have access to a Concordant interlinear at the moment but I'd be curious as to the Greek word "worry" comes from.

Regardless, I stand by what I said.  Mental illness impacts your ability to think clearly.

Careful it is.

I believe that until you need compassion, you can't possibly know how to be compassionate.  The same goes for mental illness. 

John,

If you're suggesting otherwise, then we can have an awesome discussion.
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John from Kentucky

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2015, 10:37:07 PM »

Worry isn't necessarily correct either. 

Matthew 6:31 (KJV) uses the same Greek word for "thought" that is used for careful and anxious.

Therefore take no thought (merrimnao).  I don't have access to a Concordant interlinear at the moment but I'd be curious as to the Greek word "worry" comes from.

Regardless, I stand by what I said.  Mental illness impacts your ability to think clearly.

Careful it is.

I believe that until you need compassion, you can't possibly know how to be compassionate.  The same goes for mental illness. 

John,

If you're suggesting otherwise, then we can have an awesome discussion.


I wasn't suggesting anything.  I simply stated thoughts from the Scriptures.  And, no, I do not want to have an awesome discussion.  They usually make me want to spiritually barf.

I was just calling to mind the Scripture that old Ray the Roofer quoted in his article Praying By God's Rules from the CLV, Do not worry about anything.
  I find great peace from that Scripture from God, once you get a good translation.

Below is the statement from Roofer Ray at the end of his article.


Anyway, I often pray myself to sleep just giving God thanks for my many blessings. Here is one of my favorite Scriptures, and it just happens to be on proper prayer and meditation:

    "Be rejoicing in the Lord always! Again, I will declare, be rejoicing! Let your lenience be known to all men: The Lord is near.  DO NOT WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING, but in everything, by prayer and petition, WITH THANKSGIVING, let your requests be made known to God, and the peace of God, that is superior to every frame of mind, shall be garrisoning your hearts and your apprehensions in Christ Jesus.

    For the rest, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is grave, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is agreeable, whatever is renowned—if there be any virtue, and if any applause, be taking these into account. What you learned also, and accepted and hear and perceived in me, these be putting into practice, and the God of peace will be with you" (Phil. 4-9, Concordant Literal N.T.).

Ah, yes, "the God of peace will be with you." What more do we want? Really: what more do we want? I can swap war stories regarding my past life with the best of you, but to now know that "the God of peace will be with you" is the thing that makes it all worth it. Don’t hesitate to thank God for your trials and tribulations and persecutions—they are qualifying you for the incorruptible and immortal Kingdom of God. Answered prayer is a major proof that God exists and that God loves. Obey God’s rules governing prayer, and you too will begin to experience God’s intervention into your life. And finally, the second shortest verse in the Bible:

    "Pray without ceasing" (I Thes. 5:17)!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 10:39:16 PM by John from Kentucky »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2015, 11:26:42 PM »

Matthew 6:31

(KJV+)  ThereforeG3767 take no thought,G3309 G3361 saying,G3004 WhatG5101 shall we eat?G5315 or,G2228 WhatG5101 shall we drink?G4095 or,G2228 WherewithalG5101 shall we be clothed?G4016

(ABP+)  Do notG3361 thenG3767 be anxious!G3309 saying,G3004 WhatG5100 shall we eat,G2068 orG2228 whatG5100 shall we drink,G4095 orG2228 whatG5100 should be worn?G4016

(BBE)  Then do not be full of care, saying, What are we to have for food or drink? or, With what may we be clothed?

(CEV)  Don't worry and ask yourselves, "Will we have anything to eat? Will we have anything to drink? Will we have any clothes to wear?"

(Darby)  Be not therefore careful, saying, What shall we eat? or What shall we drink? or What shall we put on?

(DRB)  Be not solicitous therefore, saying: What shall we eat: or what shall we drink, or wherewith shall we be clothed?

(JUB)  Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, With what shall we be clothed?

(KJV)  Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

(LEB)  Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear?,'

(LITV)  Then do not be anxious, saying, What may we eat? Or, what may we drink? Or, what may clothe us?

(Murdock)  Therefore be not anxious; nor say, What shall we eat, or what shall we drink; or wherewith be clothed?

(WNT)  Do not be over-anxious, therefore, asking 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'

(YLT)  therefore ye may not be anxious, saying, What may we eat? or, What may we drink? or, What may we put round?


Philippians 4:6

(KJV+)  Be carefulG3309 for nothing;G3367 butG235 inG1722 every thingG3956 by prayerG4335 andG2532 supplicationG1162 withG3326 thanksgivingG2169 let yourG5216 requestsG155 be made knownG1107 untoG4314 God.G2316

(BBE)  Have no cares; but in everything with prayer and praise put your requests before God.

(CEV)  Don't worry about anything, but pray about everything. With thankful hearts offer up your prayers and requests to God.

(Darby)  Be careful about nothing; but in everything, by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;

(DRB)  Be nothing solicitous: but in every thing, by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God.

(JUB)  Be anxious for nothing, but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God.

(KJV)  Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

(LEB)  Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

(LITV)  Be anxious about nothing, but in everything by prayer and by petition with thanksgivings, let your requests be made known to God;

(Murdock)  Be anxious for nothing; but at all times, by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, make known your requests before God.

(WNT)  Do not be over-anxious about anything, but by prayer and earnest pleading, together with thanksgiving, let your request be unreservedly made known in the presence of God.

(YLT)  for nothing be anxious, but in everything by prayer, and by supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God;

 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

John from Kentucky

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Re: God's Voice
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2015, 11:42:34 PM »

 ;D ;D ;D

Thanks Dave.  It sounds like all those Scriptures say Do Not Worry About Anything.

Roofer Ray was on to something.
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