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God's Love

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cheekie3:
Jeff -

I look at it like this:

Whatever I have ever desired, thought, spoke or done has been preordained by Our Heavenly Father.

It matters not whether we did Right or wrong (or Good or evil if you will).

Our Heavenly Father has given each one of us a conscience; whether or not we are aware of it, or not - and it is morally based.

For example, when we first lied to our Father and Mother - did we not internally evaluate the circumstances; and did we not know we were about to lie.

Then, as I understand it, Our Heavenly Father educates us a little at a time - and some of His children are Called Out Ones; and receive His Truths (again, bit by bit).

I believe inherent in each of us is a desire to do Good - but unfortunately, by ourselves, we can never do Good, as only by His Spirit Holy can any Man or Woman do Good.

If we look at this in another way - as Our Heavily Father is ultimately Responsible for ALL, and each one of us is Accountable for all our desires, thoughts, speech and action - which is PRIME - is it He who is ultimately Responsible or each Man or Woman who are Accountable.

To me it must be that He who is Responsible takes precedence.

Which means that although we are accountable for our sins (whether we desired to sin or not), He is ultimately Responsible - and guarantees a way out to total Redemption for each one of His children.

I always check the desire in my heart when challenged by anyone - in order to confirm whether or not I was doing something out of servitude to serve others or selfishness to please myself. If the Truth is that I was not acting selfishly, and we know that Our Heavenly Father judges our hearts (and its desires thereof) - to me that is the end of the matter; and if I did act selfishly, I repent of that particular sin and ask Our Heavenly Father in Jesus' Name to forgive me, as I forgive all others of their sins against me and mine.

I hope this helps a little.

Regards.

George.
 

Kat:

--- Quote from: Jeff on November 03, 2015, 05:57:37 PM ---This topic has me wondering if God has ever loved me. I don't mean that in a "poor me" way but just as an observation when I look back. I'm 56 and I've known God since I was small, first the way child knows of God, then in the Chirch, and for the past 6 years here after I found this place.

I have nothing in me that would qualify as fruit of the spirit.  My life has been one disastrous, epic fail after another. There's never been joy or contentment and I've never known real love of any kind though it's probably been there and I wasn't able to recognize it.  My childhood was full of abuse and since my teenage years I've been medicated to keep depression at bay, and maybe illness us something to do with my experience, but it raises a question. 

Is it possible that God has hated me from the beginning?

I don't want this to be a sob story, it's not like that, I'm accountable for every mistake and sin, but I think if it's possible that God has hated me, then it might explain some things.  I try to be obedient but fail often every day.  Maybe the illness is part of it but I need to find out how God has seen me throughout my life, and especially now, here, today.

Definitely something to think about.
--- End quote ---

Hi Jeff, none of us can "qualify" in any way, we are all hopelessly lose, sinful and wretched, if we think we're anything more than that, well...

Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 

God's hate is not our human kind of hate that takes things personal and wants to get even... no God is NOT like the humans that He created. He made us faulty, intentionally, too weak to resist sin/temptation, He's responsible for that, but it's a necessary part of bringing us on to perfection. So this creation seems to be running amok, with every terrible thing imaginable happening now, we're acutely aware of how bad it is, because we are right in the middle of all this.

Though God designed it to be this way, He does NOT have pleasure in all this. He wants us to understand while everything is like this, He hates all these terrible things that are happening in this world. He is NOT the god of Christendom that has designed a place called hell and will cast people there to be tortured and tormented for ever and ever and ever. This age is temporary!

God actually loves this creation so much that He did the greatest act of love possible, He came into human form and literally died for us, every single one of us is precious to Him.

1John 4:10  In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

John 3:16 For thus God loves (not pass tense) the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian." (CLV)

The conclusion of all this is that God will bring every single person that He has created to salvation and will give all them their due justice. 

1John 4:14  And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.

Eph 2:1  And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
v. 2  in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
v. 3  among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
v. 4  But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
v. 5  even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
v. 6  and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
v. 7  that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

1Tim 1:14  And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.
v. 15  This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

We all have to reach a place where we fully understand that we are not only nothing, but are exceedingly sinful and too weak to resist even the most base desires, even Paul did. So don't be so overwhelmed thinking God must have always hated you because you are a failure, WE ALL ARE! We all should realize we are the worse, just like Paul did. We have to be deceived and blind first before we can have our eyes opened to the glorious truth.  It's only at that point of realizing that we are hopelessly lose that God calls us to Christ and begins His work of redemption in us.

Heb 9:14  how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
v. 15  And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Eph 4:22  that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
v. 23  and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
v. 24  and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Here is an email.

http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm ---------------------------------

[Ray Replies]

Dear Randy:

 Just a couple of thoughts that might be of help to you as you proceed. You bring up one of the interesting beliefs of Christendom which again, diminishes the sovereignty of God and actually makes Him look rather stupid. And that is the different situations in Scripture where it appears that God thinks like a man and is LIMITED just as we men are limited.

 You gave an example, God REALLY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW what His Own creation was capable of. He built a machine, if you will (seeing that you are engineer-minded), but He did not even have the foresight of a good human engineer. God could not in His supposed INFINITE mind, all-knowing, all-wise, all-powerful attributes, foresee the result of His Own creation. He made a machine that DIDN'T WORK PROPERLY, and after discovering His fatal mistakes, He scraps all the machines and starts over with one of the machines that doesn't seem to be quit as FLAWED as the others. Of course, in just a little time even the "perfect" machine exposes its same flaws as previous models, and God is constantly adjusting and readjusting His plan from plan A to plan B to plan C, and NOTHING seems to work!

 And so, just like any good human filled with frustrations of inadequacy, God sometimes gets extremely ANGRY AND FRUSTRATED. Not at HIMSELF, but AT THE MACHINES THAT HE HIMSELF MADE!!!
 He constantly ACCUSES THEM of being "flawed" when it was God HIMSELF that made them in the first place! Are you following me, Randy? Am I not painting a perfect picture of the philosophies and theologies of Christendom?  God does never accept responsibility for the absolute MESS we find on earth today. No, He only finds fault with THE MACHINES THAT HE HIMSELF MADE! God says that HE IS PERFECT, but that the machines that HE MADE, are flawed. They SHOULD ALSO BE PERFECT AND WORK PERFECTLY, BUT THEY JUST DON'T! Oh, woe is God, what WILL He ever do?  How can He ever FIX His fatally flawed inventions?

 God wants His inventions (His machines) to work perfectly and properly, but they just won't. In fact, THEY NEVER DO. NOT ONCE HAS ANY ONE OF HIS MACHINES WORKED PERFECTLY. He likens the very BEST PERFORMANCE OF HIS VERY BEST MACHINES to some disgusting analogy of a woman's menstrual cloth (that would be "filthy rags" to all you King James readers). Eventually and apparently (according to the greatest minds in theology), God comes to realize that the problem with ALL OF HIS MACHINES is that they are ALL OUT OF CONTROL. They never ever listen to the instructions from Command Central. Sometimes they even say that they will listen to God's instructions as to how they might operate perfectly, but then in practical application of those Command Central instructions, THEY ALWAYS FAIL and malfunction.

 This then is the history of the world and the human race--episode after episode of MAL-FUNCTIONING MACHINES AND INVENTIONS OF GOD. God does pretty well with physical mechanical things, but the very things that are closest to His Own BEING--spiritual things, He has but one failure after another (BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF FAILURE).

 Not only do all this machines and inventions of God malfunction, THEY TOTALLY DESTROY EACH OTHER!!! And for many who are not destroyed by other machines, their ultimate demise comes about by a total internal meltdown. It is called "DISEASE."  All of God's machines eventually succumb to internal disease which not only causes internal malfunctions, but eventually causes all of God's machines to SELF-DESTRUCT. No human has ever died of "natural causes." All humans die from either of two things: trauma (such as poison, accident, murder) or disease. The oldest person who has ever lived and died in his sleep, DIED OF A DISEASE! And sometimes in Scripture it appears that God Himself must DESTROY HIS OWN INVENTIONS AND MACHINES TO KEEP THEM FROM DESTROYING OTHERS THAT HE WANTS TO KEEP.

 God means well. God only knows, HE TRIES!!  He has a sophomoric zeal for law and order in His universe, but these damned machines of His apparently won't even follows the pre-ordained of irrefutable LAWS OF SCIENCE AND PHYSICS. They are TOTAL RENEGADES, and nothing short of totally destroying them will keep them in harmony with all the other laws that God has instituted.

 All things in the universe follow LAW! Well, except for one. God's machines. They don't follow ANY LAWS. They are true renegades (excuse me, I meant to say "FREE moral agencies). OH REALLY?

 And when we cut through all the theological DOUBLE-SPEAK of not only the greatest theologians in the world, but also the greatest scientists and the greatest philosophers and the greatest thinkers on earth, THIS IS THE CONCLUSION AS TO WHAT GOD IS AND HOW TOTALLY INEPTLY HE PERFORMS.

But people don't want to think that "GOD" is stupid, weak, and inept. So they COME UP WITH (oh yes, they 'came up with' this theory of "human FREE will" that is not MADE to do or think ANYTHING. These complex machines that God has made are apparently capable of coming up with their OWN INSTRUCTIONS. They are not 'plugged into God,' they are running freely on energizer batteries completely independent of their own Creator.

 If men are FREE to do good and FREE to think good, why is it that God says NONE EVER HAVE? Paul tells us that NONE SEEK OUT GOD, NONE DO GOOD, NO, NOT O-N-E! If men have the ability to make UNCAUSED [free] choices why is it that NONE EVER CHOOSE GOOD?  Either NO MAN has ever chosen on his own to seek out God and do good, or GOD IS A LIAR! It's that simple!

 A friend recently suggested that one of the best books he has ever written (and one that he strongly urged that I read), is entitled "THE GOD WHO RISKS." I told him that I would never waste my time reading such a book as the very title is UNSCRIPTURAL BLASPHEMY! God has never ever 'RISKED" ANYTHING! God has never ever been 'SURPRISED' by ANYTHING! ALL OF THE UNIVERSE INCLUDING GOD'S HUMAN MACHINES OPERATE ACCORDING TO PRE-ORDAINED LAW. MAN'S APPARENT HUMAN LAWLESSNESS IS ONLY POSSIBLE THROUGH THE OPERATION OF ANOTHER LAW! 

 Men 'sin' (make mistakes) because they operate under the LAW OF MISTAKES. God instituted a "LAW OF MISTAKES." All who are subjected to this law, MAKE MISTAKES. THEY HAVE TO. A LAW IS SOMETHING THAT ALWAYS WORKS ACCORDING TO DESIGN. Humans were designed to operated according to the LAW OF MISTAKES. But most of humanity has never heard of such a thing! A 'law of mistakes.

 Who has ever heard of such a thing? This is sheer nonsense straight from the "free" mind of one, L. Ray Smith, is it not? NO, IT IS NOT! I can't and won't take credit for it. I read about this "law of mistakes" in a book--its called THE BIBLE.

 If you are really interested in the Truth, Randy, I will show you the law of mistakes and how it works. It will answer a million questions concerning the supposed malfunctioning machinery of God's creation, and the apparent contradictions of Scripture. Oh, did I tell you that there is also a "law of perfect performance" that is even more powerful than the "law of mistakes?" Men know almost nothing of these two laws, and therefore, they invent clever little heresies such as "free moral agency."


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,985.msg8254.html#msg8254 ---

Ray, would you please explaine to me the law of mistakes and the law of perfection that you mention in one of your papers?
v
Dear Alan:
To simplify theological words and terms, I sometimes present them with vanacular words and common terms.  Hence to make "the law of sin and death" more understandalbe in every day life, I called it "the law of mistakes"--sin is defined as a mistake or to miss a mark.

And the "law of the Spirit of LIfe" I called "the law of perfection." (See Rom. 8:2). When God calls us out of Babylon, He frees us from the law of sin and death by teaching us the truth and by enabling us to obey these truths. We make LESS MISTAKES, and we progress toward PERFECTION-- "The High Calling in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:13).

God be with you,
Ray

Jeff:
Hi Kat and George,

Thank you for replying.  For the most part I understand things in the same way that you do.  My understanding has been shaped through God's leading and Ray's papers.  But there are still finer points that will continue to baffle me until I understand them for what they are.

Understanding "how" God hates is something I'll have to keep working on.  I understand what you've written, but I feel like there's more - or maybe not - I tend to overthink things. :)

Peace,
Jeff

Kat:

Hi Jeff, well there may be a finer point on this that you are looking for and there is so much to these things that makes them hard to get all the way worked out in our minds to where we are completely satisfied with it.

But let me add this, there have been subjects that I thought I understood or I had developed an understanding of. We get info/understanding from everywhere, as we go about life, from people we talk to, TV, internet and oh yes when we were in church. So we have picked up bits and pieces here and there of what we have determined/believe to be right and we store it away in a mind and it pops back up when we think about something related to it. So our minds are filled with this 'knowledge' or OUR understanding that we have gained from all over the place. Most of it we don't even question, we have already decided it was right and rely on it.

So I have come to realized that I had formed some 'mental blocks' to learning some of these truths, because I had faulty 'knowledge' stored up and was still influencing me, that was preventing me from understanding. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, I don't know, but it has happen with me.

Yes we come to understand things from many sources and I guess I had much stored up from my church days and with much study have been able to root a lot of that out, because it would interfere with my understanding these truths. It is a daunting process un-learning all these falsehoods that we had once believed and they can be stumbling blocks too. I think there must still be things deeply embedded in my mind that I do not even realize yet.

So it's a continual process to find and sort out these ideas that impede our learning, but that's why God gives us His Spirit to help us with this...

John 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Hope this helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Jeff:
Yes Kat, thank you.  You bring up a very good point.  I hadn't thought about what might be blocking me - some idea that I accepted - or the way I think about love - could very well be keeping me from grasping.  I'll have to pray about that.

You're always an inspiration, Kat, everyone here is, and I'm grateful. :)

Jeff

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