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"So - Is there any difference?"

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lareli:

--- Quote from: octoberose on December 11, 2015, 02:19:41 AM ---JFK and the principles of nonviolence?  Really? He was probably killed because he was fooling around with the mobsters mistress  or because of the Bay of Pigs . He was also a war hero . And a sex addict. The man was a mess.
 Has anyone talked about Luke 22?
And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”
    Of course I am aware that Jesus healed the soldier after Peter  cut off his ear with the sword ( have you considered Jesus let him do it in the first place?) . But that was so nothing would intervere with Christ accomplishing what he came here to do.  So in Luke 22 he tells them to sell their cloak to buy a sword! You have a sword for protection ! 
  The sum of thy word is truth. We can't leave out the uncomfortable bits. And we all have to do what their measure of faith allows, because if we think something is sinful then for him, it is.  The Bible tells us to take care of our household, so I will be defending my grandchildren by any means necessary. And believe me, my husband would not sit around while I was being attacked. I'm kind of flabbergasted that any of you think that is what is required fron you .  I'm glad my husband is
Willing to give his life for me - and grateful. This is also called laying your life down for someone else- something else that Jesus taught.

--- End quote ---


Great points! All of them.

As far as JFK being a war hero, sex addict, so on and so forth.. It sounds as if we could be describing King David, lol! Neither of which could be considered examples of modern day practitioners of non violence. I mean the office and authority of 'President' or any head-of-state, relies completely on the ability to use violence.. As I've said in another thread, without the threat of violence a law would cease to be a law and would merely be a suggestion.

JFK is a poor example when considering the doctrines of non violence. Actually all of the well known advocates (Ghandi, MLK.. ) missed the point of Jesus teachings as far as Tolstoy wrote. Tolstoy didn't just point out Jesus teaching non violence but also non resistance. He referenced Jesus instructions to "do not resist an evil person". Non resistance to evil. I wonder why Jesus said to not resist an evil person but later said to sell your cloak and buy a sword.. Like you said, the 'sum' of the word.

I'm a fan of military and religious history. The two are often inseparable in history. Relatively speaking... JFK wasn't a typical President. The US has been involved in armed violent conflict in one way or another for about 222 out of its 239 years or roughly %93 of its existence. It's economy, arguably, depends on war and therefore violence. JFK may have been a mess on a personal level but on the world stage, he was an obstacle in the way of a nation which wanted war.

He didn't avoid conflict completely but he did shoot down plans for large scale conflict... Operation Northwoods is one example. It's public record. Not theory but undeniable history. Anyone can read up on it for themselves. The joint chiefs of staff physically put it on paper and signed off on it! Basically the US wanted war with Cuba (Bay of Pigs as you mentioned), but they needed an excuse. The joint chiefs of staff came up with a plan which was rejected by the JFK administration. The plan was to carry out terrorist attacks against America and blame it on the Cubans... They wanted to hijack planes and explode them as well as other attacks, which would give the US the public support it needed for war... This sort of plan of attacking your own country in order to justify war against another country or people is as old as time. Didn't Nero burn his own city and blame it on Christians? Didn't they disguise themselves as Native Americans during the boston tea party?

Anyways the plan was rejected, war with the Soviets was also avoided during JFKs time, as was a Vietnam invasion.. JFK did not want war and his efforts to stonewall plans for war perhaps earned him a bullet to the head ... Or perhaps it was a jealous mobster.. Who knows. It's all very fascinating to me though. Very soon after JFK was out of the way the US was back to her old self and the Vietnam war would be under way. The Gulf of Tonkin incident would be the official reason for war... But years later it was admitted that the Gulf of Tonkin incident never actually happened. The world wants war and she shall have it one way or another. If one wishes to be like Jesus, well you will be in her way and she will hate you and kill you.

lilitalienboi16:
In agreement with both Kat and Jesse. Consider this verse as well in the support of nonviolence for all who follow Jesus:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

God bless,
Alex

John from Kentucky:
Many years ago, in the Worldwide Church of God, we were pacifists and nonviolent, in the midst of the draft for the Vietnam War.

My ex-wife was worried about her safety if we were attacked and wanted to know how I would protect her.  I said, "Honey, I'll take the 1st bullet for you, and the 2nd, and maybe even manage a 3rd bullet.  After that, you're on your own."   She did not appreciate my humor.  Of course, most religious people cannot understand humor.

indianabob:
JFK has a point,
Most "religious" people can't understand humor. Their great sacrifices in the name of God are way too serious to critique or joke about. (smile)

In my own case I suppose or I hope that I would take the first bullet for my wife, but even if she took a fatal bullet first her worries would be over until the resurrection.
Even though her life on earth would be cut short and I would miss her companionship, it would not be for the reasons that most of the world is concerned. Why, because they don't believe in a resurrection to life once again, they don't see death as a new beginning under the righteous rule of our Lord Jesus.

Besides all of that, God is able to protect us from every eventuality IF that is His righteous will. And if HIS will is that our journey is suspended for a time, why be concerned?  Cast all of your worries on His shoulders and rest in peace. :)

octoberose:
Really interesting largeli. It gives me hope that no matter who wins the next election that God will work His will through the weakest of vessels.
   In regards to the subject of this thread  - are you all saying if someone walked into your home and did harm to your family or walked off with your child, that you wouldn't call the police? I know its one of those pesky hypotheticals, but that is sometimes hard to avoid.
   

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