> General Discussions
"So - Is there any difference?"
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: octoberose on December 11, 2015, 11:41:48 PM ---Really interesting largeli. It gives me hope that no matter who wins the next election that God will work His will through the weakest of vessels.
In regards to the subject of this thread - are you all saying if someone walked into your home and did harm to your family or walked off with your child, that you wouldn't call the police? I know its one of those pesky hypotheticals, but that is sometimes hard to avoid.
--- End quote ---
Rose,
If you read the thread you would know what scripture and we are saying.
God be with you,
Alex
John from Kentucky:
If the One, True God is your God,
then you do not worry about anything,
like a baby in a mother's arms,
The Great God takes care of His chosen ones,
the righteous live by faith in the Power behind all things.
Kat:
--- Quote from: octoberose on December 11, 2015, 11:41:48 PM ---Really interesting largeli. It gives me hope that no matter who wins the next election that God will work His will through the weakest of vessels.
In regards to the subject of this thread - are you all saying if someone walked into your home and did harm to your family or walked off with your child, that you wouldn't call the police? I know its one of those pesky hypotheticals, but that is sometimes hard to avoid.
--- End quote ---
It's really interesting that some just cannot accept what is being spoken of here... yet it's clear violence is the opposite of love and there are so many Scripture speaking against violence that makes it a primary teaching. Violence is an action that this world uses continually for many reasons, some of which is justifiable by this worlds standards. Believers are not to be like the world, but are now being "conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:29), our minds - the way we think about things must be "renewed" now.
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind,
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
v. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
Christ NEVER used violence for any reason throughout His lifetime or the Scripture would not be true.
Isa 53:9 And they made His grave with the wicked— But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
There was even an incident where Jesus was attacked by an angry crowd, and did He fight back to protect Himself? No, He merely walked away from them.
Luke 4:24 Then He said, "Assuredly, I say to you, no prophet is accepted in his own country.
v. 25 But I tell you truly, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, and there was a great famine throughout all the land;
v. 26 but to none of them was Elijah sent except to Zarephath, in the region of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow.
v. 27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet, and none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian."
v. 28 So all those in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
v. 29 and rose up and thrust Him out of the city; and they led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, that they might throw Him down over the cliff.
v. 30 Then passing through the midst of them, He went His way.
There is absolutely no Scripture account that the Apostles resorted to violence for any reason and they certainly would have had plenty of opportunities, because they were beings assaulted all the time. It is interesting that there is not a single accounts of them 'fighting' to protect themselves or those with them, ever... instead they always were peaceable, as Christ was and preached peace, as Christ did. Yes they would flee from danger (Acts 14:6), but never resorted to violence.
1Cor 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
If Christ's Spirit is in us, then we are being conformed in our minds to be like He was and taught the Apostles to be. It's hard to give up everything, to "deny" yourself, but to be a true follower of Christ that is the cost...
Mat 10:37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
v. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
v. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
Matt 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
octoberose:
Paul says in the ESV translation, II Corinthians 11_ , " 8 And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches." CLV says his "solicitude" for all the churches. I don't believe Paul is sinning when he admits this. Whatever it is he is trying to convey here, he is not trying to take control of the situation and not giving it to God, because he knows, "be anxious for nothing." Cast your cares on Him admits that you have cares and that certainly pertains to me and I venture to say all of the mothers here. And I would think most of you.
Our dilemma in this post is what we would do to defend the innocent, and perhaps to defend ourselves. I brought up the police question because I think it is disingenuous to call the person with the gun all the while condemning those who would use one . In this society we have our own 'guard dog' a three digit phone call away. This discussion, for me, has to be about the condition of our hearts, a condition of seeking mercy and living peacefully "as much as it pertains to us". The Concordant Literal says this; To no one render evil for evil, making ideal provision in the sight of all men, 18 if possible that which comes out from yourselves. Being at peace with all mankind,
I find it very interesting that Paul says If Possible. And that is the question- when is it not possible?
It is good to wrestle with these things. It is not good to question the election of your brother or sister while wrestling with it though, and I feel that that is being more than implied a couple of times. Maybe I'm wrong.
My last point is this: Dying for your faith, being beaten or abused or any way chastised because of who we are in Jesus Christ- well, that comes from following Him. I would not lift a finger to defend myself from being a Christ Follower. I am guilty and they can kill me for it, the way they killed Him. However, does the new testament tell me I cannot defend myself from anything at all, or that I can only not defend myself because of my faith? Now, there's the question. And some of us have a different conclusion to that question than others.
I don't have to agree with you on every single point in order to appreciate you, value you, listen and learn from you. And in the end we are all accountable to the same Lord and He will judge.
indianabob:
Friends,
I am reluctant to reply at this late date when so much of value has already been shared. However, I will stick out my neck and accept the correction that may come.
I seem to perceive in some comments an assumption that we on the forum who may be some of the elect if God wills it to be so, have an obligation to measure up to a certain level of faith or to be subject to exclusion from the "body of Christ" in the wedding ceremony.
-
For example if I should find myself lacking enough faith to stand fast and see the power of God in defense of my person and instead find myself taking strong action against an assailant up to the point of exercising lethal force in my own defense or that of some other innocent party, that I am therefore accounted unworthy to remain under grace in the eyes of God.
If that is what some are concerned about, I would say put that concern on the shoulders of our loving Lord Jesus who will in EVERY circumstance advocate for us no matter how lacking in faith we were under such a provocation.
Yes we do have to have faith and we need to feed and refresh it daily, but we are not the Lord Jesus and we have not the faith of Jesus within ourselves to the same measure as was given to him. We have only an earnest, a portion confirming the promise of Father God to His elect. We are weak vessels and God is gracious and knows our frame and desires to forgive us EVERY error and every falling short of the glory that is to come when His work is completed in us at Christ's return.
We have not been taught, "you are my called out ones, so don't you ever make a mistake again or I will cast you away from myself". Rather we have been taught to lay all of our concerns at the feet of our Lord Jesus and be reassured that God will complete a work in us for His own glory. All of our mistakes, all of our sins committed through weakness and fear will be forgiven as soon as we place ourselves at God's mercy and even that is God's work in us.
Of course we should continue to grow in grace and knowledge and in faith especially, but be reminded that God is the one working in us at His own pace and we are not yet perfect in faith.
Kindly offered, Indiana bob
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