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"So - Is there any difference?"
Kat:
It seems to me that, especially here on the forum where we are posting and representative of the body of Christ to many reading, that we should be united in what we believe and present here.
I have been stressing, which was indicated, what I see in so many Scripture to be a basic principle, no violence... I feel that we should be able to agree on this. Now I'm not saying that we can be perfect without error, that in a situation one might err, but it's not for me to judge what actually happens in somebody private life... but I do feel we need to be united in what is taught in the Scripture. Our attitude should be to accept/agree with Christ's own words, though we all can and do stumble at times, what actually happens in our lives is a matter between us and God.
There are a few Scripture that have comments that are questionable and we are discussing those points, but that should not mean that we continue to disagree on the primary teaching we are discussing. Yes Paul had great concern for the churches/believers that he was getting started and he wanted them very much to be united in the same message he was teaching them.
Php 1:27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel,
v. 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that from God.
v. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
v. 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
I guess I get very serious when I see many Scripture witnesses on a subject and people seem to be looking for loopholes... forgive me if I am coming on too strong as to cause offence.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Jeff:
Kat,
So very well said.
We live in this world that we can't accept but we are here. God created us in His image but crafted a uniqueness in each of us.
Jesus was not vague with respect to how we should conduct ourselves.
"He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal." (John 12:25)
"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him." (John 14:21)
Galatians 5:22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness..."
Luke 9:23 And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me."
We could quote Scriptures for hours that show how Jesus perceived this world, and how He expected us to live but I think one verse in particular says everything perfectly.
Luke 23:34 "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots."
Dave in Tenn:
Rose, I'm not going to draw the line on 'behavior' for anybody. Of course, it is all a matter of the heart. It's no 'loop-hole' for me to recognize that what Jesus said applies to ME. The Sermon on the mount is for ME, if I am to be a disciple. "If a man strike you on the right cheek" doesn't tell me in black or white what I am to DO if a man strikes somebody else on the right cheek, especially an innocent.
But behavior DOES spring from the heart. It's how we know what the heck is down in there, despite all of our justifying and intellectualizing.
There are many 'behaviors' that reveal the heart in this broader discussion, and I'm not talking about the behavior, necessarily, of posting a comment on the forum. Some people have an 'itchy trigger finger' with a heart that says "Come, ye hordes of evil-doers and I shall slay you in the name of righteousness as an agent of God." That's Peter before conversion. Some want to exercise their own 'wrath' and are not content to wait on the Lord, whose 'work' includes the (sometimes reprehensible) earthly powers that He has ordained for our benefit and is not limited to miracles. Though I certainly agree with Ray when he said, in effect, we don't know what God would have done if we step in front and 'do' ourselves. Some are so consumed daily by fear of unlikely events that they expose themselves to more likely dangers, both spiritual and natural.
As I've said before, I need at least two reasons to get out of bed in the morning. I certainly have more than one reason for not 'arming' myself.
This life is as grass. The life to come is not. Just me talking here, but I no longer want to live in a world run by and dominated by evil, and evil reactions to evil. Does anybody really think that those with such a heart will be judging the world in Righteousness? Yes, Peter drew and used the sword. Yes, Saul of Tarsus stood by the stoning of Stephen approvingly and ran havoc with zeal on the early church. Their sins are forgiven, but they did not continue on that way, by the Grace of God.
Still, even if we manage to 'do the right thing' always, if we do it without Love, it is worthless.
lareli:
--- Quote from: octoberose on December 11, 2015, 11:41:48 PM ---Really interesting largeli. It gives me hope that no matter who wins the next election that God will work His will through the weakest of vessels.
In regards to the subject of this thread - are you all saying if someone walked into your home and did harm to your family or walked off with your child, that you wouldn't call the police? I know its one of those pesky hypotheticals, but that is sometimes hard to avoid.
--- End quote ---
I don't know. I'd do whatever God has predetermined that I'd do should a situation like this come upon me.
I look at this life and all the history of this world as one big parable.. Perhaps made up by billions and trillions of smaller parables. It's all one big story.. It's Gods story though and not mine. History is HIS-story.
In His story there's good guys, bad guys, heroes, villains, victims, oppressors, etc etc etc. all I can do is play the part that He's created me to play.
If someone broke into my house and wanted to harm my wife then perhaps at this point in His-story it would be me who is playing the oppressed victim... orrrr maybe He will want me to be His righteous hand of judgement upon this hypothetical man who's broken into my home and wanting to harm an innocent family... I don't have a gun and I don't want to ever hurt anyone but if God wants to use me as a hammer to smash an evil man who God Himself sent to break into my house so that God could smash this evil man by using me as the hammer, I may do the job enthusiastically! I won't know until it happens. But if He wants to use me as a tool in His hand to punish the wicked man, and then after He's used me as a tool perhaps He may turn next and judge the tool/me well what can I do? God is good and His plans for us are good!
I agree with you that especially as parents it is normal to wonder about situations like these. I would just advise that we continue to wrestle with God more so than just wrestling with the opinions of other people. People are dumb but God is wise.
Nelson Boils:
I remember my friend:at his house they use to have these security systems but still, his home was broken into and valuables were taken.
The most powerful nation in the world had built a defence they thought was unbreachable but still,the defence was breached.
Weird though,we spend tons of money on building a defence but still our homes are broken into!
Guess that is a defence built in vain!
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