It is what it is

[rick]

Do you "tell it like it is?

When one says they will do this or do that they stand in the temple of God and proclaim to be God but only say if the Lord is willing I shall tell it like it is.

God bless.

[Kat]

Shechiyn, saying that Jesus spoke directly to the pharisees and saying "Maybe Jesus was not direct with his comments" is 2 different things. Yes He spoke directly to them, but the spirit of the message was totally lost on them, that's why they were so angry with what He said, they did not ears to hear.

And yes He certainly called them what they're, they did understand the literal meaning of what He was saying and that cause them to vhemently hated Him and kill Him. But that type of language and tone was certainly not used on His disciples, as it was done for them to later have understanding of what He was applying it to spiritually.

We are certainly to imitate Christ in righteous living, but judging others is a whole other thing.

1 Cor 4:1  Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.v. 2  Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful.
v. 3  But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court.fn In fact, I do not even judge myself.
v. 4  For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.
v. 5  Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God.
v. 6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Nelson Boils]

Hey

I'll make comments to your post

Shechiyn, saying that Jesus spoke directly to the pharisees and saying "Maybe Jesus was not direct with his comments" is 2 different things.

Comment:
Kat,i did not say they are NOT 2 different things.Why you telling me this?

Yes He spoke directly to them, but the spirit of the message was totally lost on them, that's why they were so angry with what He said, they did not ears to hear.

Comment:
"they were so angry with what He said" because "they did not (have) ears to hear" is your understanding - not mine.

And yes He certainly called them what they're, they did understand the literal meaning of what He was saying and that cause them to vhemently hated Him and kill Him.

Comment
"..they did understand the literal meaning of what He was saying.." I didn't know Jesus' words had a "literal meaning" behind them.Even more astonishing,I didn't know that the Pharisees understood the "literal meaning" of Jesus' words.

But that type of language and tone was certainly not used on His disciples, as it was done for them to later have understanding of what He was applying it to spiritually.


Comment:
Kat,I didn't say Jesus used "that type of language and tone on His disciples."Why tell me this?Are you somehow suggesting i did?

We are certainly to imitate Christ in righteous living, but judging others is a whole other thing.

Comment:
"Judging others" is not a "whole other thing" from "imitating Christ in righteous living," they are not different,Kat.Imitating Christ involves judging,RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT.I must admit though,i am still in limbo regarding:"Judge not,that you be not judged."

You quoted Paul from the book of Corinthians.

Could it be possible that 1 Cor 4:5 should read:

"Therefore,stop judging PREMATURELY..," (ISV)

Maybe we should stop judging PREMATURELY.

John 5:30 ".Just as i hear,I judge,and my judgement is JUST."

Peace 

[Kat]

Comment
"..they did understand the literal meaning of what He was saying.." I didn't know Jesus' words had a "literal meaning" behind them.Even more astonishing,I didn't know that the Pharisees understood the "literal meaning" of Jesus' words.

But that type of language and tone was certainly not used on His disciples, as it was done for them to later have understanding of what He was applying it to spiritually.


Comment:
Kat,I didn't say Jesus used "that type of language and tone on His disciples."Why tell me this?Are you somehow suggesting i did?

We are certainly to imitate Christ in righteous living, but judging others is a whole other thing.

Comment:
"Judging others" is not a "whole other thing" from "imitating Christ in righteous living," they are not different,Kat.Imitating Christ involves judging,RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT.I must admit though,i am still in limbo regarding:"Judge not,that you be not judged."

A person could not carry on a conversation without speaking literally, of course Jesus spoke things that were literal... that is why the Pharisees hated Him, they knew He was speaking about them, because He was speaking directly to them when He said things like this.

Luke 11:38 When the Pharisee saw it, he marveled that He had not first washed before dinner.
v. 39 Then the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean, but your inward part is full of greed and wickedness.
v. 40 "Foolish ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also?

Was that literal enough, they certainly understood what He was saying, here is their response.

Luke 11:45 Then one of the lawyers answered and said to Him, "Teacher, by saying these things You reproach us also."

And after He spoke even more in this matter to them, here is their other response.

Luke 11:53 And as He said these things to them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to assail Him vehemently, and to cross-examine Him about many things,
v. 54 lying in wait for Him, and seeking to catch Him in something He might say, that they might accuse Him.

He spoke enough to the pharisees in a literal manner for them to hate Him and eventually kill Him. Was all what Him in parable form so that they did not understand? Of course not, but all of His spiritual teachings was in parable form, because the Spirit of what He said was reserved for the elect, that was to come later, after He was crucified and raised back up. So yes the spiritual messages that He spoke in front of the world was always in parables, but He did speak literally too.

You quoted Paul from the book of Corinthians.

Could it be possible that 1 Cor 4:5 should read:

"Therefore,stop judging PREMATURELY..," (ISV)

Maybe we should stop judging PREMATURELY.

John 5:30 ".Just as i hear,I judge,and my judgement is JUST."

The chosen are now to judge themselves, but they are not involved with judging the world now, nor was/is Christ.

1Peter 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

John 12:46 "I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.
v. 47 "And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
v. 48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him IN THE LAST DAY.
v. 49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
v. 50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[John from Kentucky]

Jesus did and does use strong language with His elect and takes strong action with them, as the Potter decides.

Jesus told Peter, "Get behind Me Satan."  To call anyone Satan is very strong language since the Devil is pure evil.

Peter was a tough guy, but I imagine his feelings may have been a tad hurt.  Just like when Paul withstood him to his face in front of everyone in Antioch.

Jesus tells us not to throw our pearls to swine.  Again strong language to say someone is ignorant like a pig.

Few know the true Jesus.

[Kat]

Jesus did and does use strong language with His elect and takes strong action with them, as the Potter decides.

Jesus told Peter, "Get behind Me Satan."  To call anyone Satan is very strong language since the Devil is pure evil.

Peter was a tough guy, but I imagine his feelings may have been a tad hurt.  Just like when Paul withstood him to his face in front of everyone in Antioch.

Jesus tells us not to throw our pearls to swine.  Again strong language to say someone is ignorant like a pig.

Few know the true Jesus.

Yes Jesus certainly did use strong language with Peter, but what brought on such a response?

Mat 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
v. 22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!"
v. 23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."

As with every thing that Jesus uttered, this response to Peter was exactly what he needed for what he had "rebuked" Christ for... though Peter did not understand it, but he was still worldly minded and advocating the ways of the world - Satan.

Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,

Yes it probably was a difficult thing to hear from Christ, but necessary and these teaching would all come back to them as their minds were opened to the truth and they could understand these things.

Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines him whom He loves, and chastises every son whom He receives."

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Nelson Boils]

Kat you quote

Luke 11:38 When the Pharisee saw it, he marveled that He had not first washed before dinner.
v. 39 Then the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean, but your inward part is full of greed and wickedness.
v. 40 "Foolish ones! Did not He who made the outside make the inside also?

Was that literal enough, they certainly understood what He was saying, here is their response

Comment:
You ask "Was that literal enough?"
Sorry,but i have never in my life seen a literal "cup" and literal "dish" filled with literal "greed" and literal "wickedness."NEVER--Neither have you.

Ok kat,enough with the teaching.

[Kat]

They certainly understood the meaning of what Jesus was talking about there. Though some things were metaphor and some were parable, you have to know that Jesus was literal at time, though His words do carry a deeper spiritual meaning there is the literal/physical before the spiritual (1 Cor 15:46).

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Pini56]

Hello,

The thing about the cup is that it was a "Metaphor". Even today we use metaphors a lot in everyday conversation and most people understand them. As Ray says a metaphor is this: "Is Like In Certain Ways". Therefore the thing about the cup was not so much a "Parable", but a "Metaphor" that the Pharisees fully understood was about them and hence hated Jesus for saying it.

Regards To You All, Geoff.

[Joel]

Psalms 23:5-Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

The 23rd Psalm is mostly all metaphors, just as most of the scriptures are.
The religious leaders were very aware from their knowledge of the scriptures what they represented, as Kat, and Geoff, and others have pointed out.
But they were totally blinded as to who The Lord Jesus Christ was.

Joel