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BIBLICAL FIGURES OF SPEECH LITERAL OR SYMBOLIC?
Kat:
--- Quote from: lauriellen on January 02, 2016, 02:20:44 PM ---There is a 'figure of speech' that is often used to describe my 3 sisters and myself. People have often said, "if you have seen one of them, you have seen them all." They say this because we look so much alike. Of course there are many differences as well in height, weight, hairstyle, etc., but the similarities are so strong, that they overshadow the differences. I have often wondered if this could be the case as well, when Jesus declared "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father"....could this be just a figure of speech?
--- End quote ---
I'm thinking that a problem that may be keeping us from understanding the relationship of the Father and Son better is that we keep trying to picture Them as we do a human relationship. Now I realize that Father and Son is what Christ referred to Them as and so of course that is a good and proper way to say it, because in so many ways it is a very good way to describe it. But I think it does not characterize it perfectly, because for one thing the Father is not human... and when we try to look at it in 'every' aspect in a human way, then we cannot understand it completely.
The thing of Them being 'one' seems to be a major hung up in figuring this out too. I try to think of the Father as the source of everything, even the Son... I don't know what to call Him, but He is not a man, as Ray has said... I don't even see Him as a being, He cannot be contained or limited to a specific space (1Ki 8:27, 2Ch 2:6, 6:18). So He is God or the Source of all.
The Father first thought up this whole creation and all the intricate functions and creatures that it would possess and then determined to have it so. I believe the Son was brought forth to do all this... I think of the Son as something like another appendage of the Father, to be purely for this Creation. Now appendage is not the best term, because it is also a human term, but that's the best I can come up with. But I see the Son as a special part of the Father made just for the work of this creation. So if you get what I'm saying They are one, not separate and certainly not 2 Gods, but the Son is not everything that the Father is.
Another thing to think about is that we too will become sons and daughters of God and be 'one' with Them too. When resurrected and born into the kingdom, we will be joined and permanently united with Christ and the Father, which will bring us to perfection as God is and then we will be one with them as Christ is now. Christ has His on personality and so will we continue to have our on personality too, and we will be incorruptible (1 Cor 15:42) sons/daughters of God.
John 17:11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
John 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
v. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Nelson Boils:
--- Quote from: Kat on January 01, 2016, 06:24:52 PM ---On these verses, for the first 2, well it says about the burning bush that it "was not consumed," therefore we know this could not be literal fire.
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Clearly you didn't read the verse after it:
Exodus(ISV) 3:3 "Then moses told himself,"I'll go over and see this REMARKABLE SIGHT.Why isn't the bush burning."
Moses calls it a "REMARKABLE SIGHT."Why?Because the "BUSH ISN'T BURNING."
Moses couldn't believe what his eyes were seeing.Still think this was not literal?
--- Quote from: Kat on January 02, 2016, 01:28:26 PM --- What the bush was showing was the glory of the Lord on it, not a physical thing, but it appeared 'like' fire,"
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No,Kat.Where did you get that it appeared "like fire?"It doesn't say that.This is what it says:
Exo 3:2 And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed.
It "appeared to him in a flame of fire,"it didn't appear to him "like fire."Where did you get the "like" in this verse?
Then you say,"Moses actually entered this "fire" when he went on top of the mountain to get the 10 commandments and was not burned or consumed by it."
No,Kat.Moses didn't enter this "fire" as you suggest.Did you read:
Exodus 24:18 "Then Moses entered the Cloud.." - That is what he entered,"the cloud," not there "fire."
Kat,in a previous thread,the figurative and literal confused you,now it is happening again.
Please take extra caution when cooking and dishing up.
Kat:
Shechiyn, then we just disagree on this matter of God's fire being literal or not.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
microlink:
Hi everyone,
Did God (Yahweh) reveal Himself to Moses in a literal manner? At least a part of Him. I think He did.
Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
Exo 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
:)
Kat:
Hi Joe, yes I agree with you that this is literal event, that Moses was given a partial view of the Lord. I don't think this was a vision or something, but actually took place just as it is written.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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