> General Discussions
Are our thoughts really our thoughts ?
rick:
--- Quote from: indianabob on January 23, 2016, 11:06:31 PM ---
So who decided? Me or God?
Did I make a choice between the various options presented to me.
Or was I CAUSED to make the choice to have some fun and lazily bask in the sun?
Let's get real here folks...
--- End quote ---
Hi Bob,
I could of used some sun and heat too, not to mention some free vitamin D to boot.
Well Bob, could be both, you chose to choose what God wanted you too, but please lets stay with the original question , are we the originator of our thoughts ?
Are our thoughts independent of our creator ?
God bless everyone.
Kat:
Hi Rick, yes even our thoughts are caused as all things are, absolutely nothing is free from the sovereignty of God. But God is working in His chosen to get their thinking aligned with His will and ways.
Eph 4:23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
Notice what David instructed of Solomon.
1Ch 28:9 "As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.
God wants us to love and obey Him from the heart, of course it's caused by God, He's sovereign it can be no other way. But He really wants us to understand/comprehend (by the thoughts of a willing mind) and believe that He is the Almighty God and worthy of our worship and obedience of Him. It's one thing to say you believe, it's quite another to live as though you do, that's what He is accomplishing/causing in us. This is from the 'Myth of "Free Will" Exposed' - Part C.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html ------------------
If it is God, who causes all circumstances which cause all of our thoughts and decisions and acts, then clearly our thoughts and actions are not based on uncaused and non-existent circumstances. Clearly our will is caused and not “free” or “uncaused.”
v
“…Who works [‘operates’] ALL THINGS after the counsel of His own will” (Eph. 1:11).
“For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are ALL THINGS…” (Rom. 11:36).
“And ALL THINGS are of God…” (II Cor. 5:;18).
“…calls those things which be NOT, as though they WERE” (Rom. 4:17).
“Declaring the END from the BEGINNING…” (Isa. 46:10).
“For in Him we LIVE, and MOVE, and have our BEING [Gk: ‘we ARE’—we exist]…” (Acts 17:28).
All energy, all matter, all creation, and all humans are in God. We can only “live and move… IN HIM.” And this is why:
“O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself. It is not in man that walks to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).
No man has a will that can choose contrary to what God already knows will be: “…and calls those things which be not [thoughts and deeds which have not yet been supposedly ‘freely’ thought of] as though they were [as though they already were thought of—how is that ‘freedom’ of the will?]” (Rom. 4:17).
I will repeat this until I am blue in the face, and perchance somebody out there will say, “Ah, yes, now I get it.” Once more: Since God says very plainly that He knows all things and that He knows all things before they happen, how is it then possible that anyone can think a thought which God didn’t know he would have to think? And if God already knows every thought that you must think: how are you free to not think those very foreknown thoughts and those foreknown thoughts only?
If any person in the history of the world can think one thought that God did not foreknow that he would think, then God cannot;
“call those things which be not as though they were.”
“Man’s goings [Heb: ‘steps’] are of the Lord; how can a man then understand his own way?” (Prov. 20:24).
“The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord.” (Prov. 16:1).
No one can make one statement out of his mouth, unless it was first pre-ordained, foreknown, and approved of, by God!
“The Son of man [Jesus] can do nothing of Himself… without Me [Jesus] ye [all of you—all of mankind] can do nothing” (John 5:19 & 15:5].
v
“Thou [you reading this paper right now…] will say then unto me, ‘WHY DOES He [God] yet find fault' [with the King of Assyria or ANYONE who merely does what God Himself has supernaturally INTENDED for them to do?] For [or ‘because’] who has [EVER] resisted His [GOD’S] WILL [Gk: boulema ‘resolve, intention, or PURPOSE.” This word is never translated “will” and is used but one other time in Acts, translated: ‘purpose.’]”
God tells us that the Assyrian did only what He Himself intended for him to do. Paul, likewise, assures us that no one ever has or can go against God’s “intention or purpose.” How then is God justified in punishing the King of Assyria or anyone else for doing what God “intended” for them to do? The answer lies in the HEART of mankind. God said that He would punish “the fruit of his ARROGANT HEART”
The Bible doesn’t say that man doesn’t have a HEART. It doesn’t say that he doesn’t have a MIND. It doesn’t say that he can’t THINK. It doesn’t say he can’t make CHOICES. It doesn’t say he doesn’t have a WILL. It doesn’t say he can’t carry out his will through his thoughts, choices, planning, action, and deeds. What it does say is that: MAN IS NOT A GOD WHO CAN DO THESE THINGS INDEPENDENTLY AND FREELY FROM THE INTENTIONS AND PURPOSE OF HIS CREATOR!! THAT’S what the Bible really says!
The King of Assyria is being punished because he is claiming to possess FREEDOM OF HIS OWN WILL. He claimed that he came up with the ideas, he made the plans, he carried them out, he reaped the rewards, he took credit for being someone great, etc., etc., when in reality God tells us it was all of Him, and that the king was merely a club in God’s hand.
v
Did the King of Assyria understand in his “obscured” heart that it was God sending him to Jerusalem to do His will? No. Does Christendom understand in their “obscured” hearts that it is God sending them to deceive the world and to blaspheme His name through their evil doctrines? No.
“The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers [rillets—small brooks] of water: He turns [directs] it whithersoever he will [desires]” (Prov. 21:1).
It is not in a king to direct his ways, neither is it in ALL MANKIND to direct his steps:
“O Lord, I know that the way of man [Heb: ‘Adam, a human, mankind] is NOT in himself [or in his presumed free will] it is not IN man [‘not in MANKIND’] that walks to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).
If mankind cannot direct his own steps: Who then does direct his “steps?”
“Man’s goings [Heb: ‘STEPS’] are OF THE LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?” (Prov. 20:24).
All is OF God.
---------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Rick on January 24, 2016, 12:11:40 AM ---
--- Quote from: indianabob on January 23, 2016, 11:06:31 PM ---
So who decided? Me or God?
Did I make a choice between the various options presented to me.
Or was I CAUSED to make the choice to have some fun and lazily bask in the sun?
Let's get real here folks...
--- End quote ---
Hi Bob,
I could of used some sun and heat too, not to mention some free vitamin D to boot.
Well Bob, could be both, you chose to choose what God wanted you too, but please lets stay with the original question , are we the originator of our thoughts ?
Are our thoughts independent of our creator ?
God bless everyone.
--- End quote ---
Our thoughts are most definitely not independent of our Creator. Without God there is nothing. In Him we live and move and have our being. In Jesus do all things consist and have their cohesion. Everything always goes back to God. He is the source. He is the begining and the end.
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: indianabob on January 23, 2016, 11:06:31 PM ---This type of presentation of our experiences is not getting more helpful, but rather seems more confusing. :o
--- End quote ---
With this statement, I agree. it kinda reminds me of the time I was grappling with this in the beginning. "I want to scratch my nose. If I scratch my nose, does that mean God wants me to scratch my nose? What if I don't scratch my nose? Does that mean God doesn't want me to scratch my nose? Can I avoid scrathing or not scratching mynose if God wants it scratched or not scratched? Oh my! What am I to do?"
I ended that episode by scratching my nose! The earth kept spinning and the stars didn't fall from the sky. My nose felt less itchy, too...at least for a little while. LIVE YOUR LIFE! What else can you do? If you know what is right, DO IT! If you know what is good to think about, THINK IT. If you don't know, don't worry about it. If you know what is wrong, don't do it. If you know what thoughts are wrong, don't think them. THOSE are the times when you will learn about the sovereignty of God.
The question was "are our thoughts really our thoughts". YES! YES, they are!
Are they 'caused'? YES! Yes, they are!
rick:
To Dave and Bob,
Its seems to me you both somehow become agitated by my question, my apologies to both of you.
please concidef this, should those of us who eat meat be angry at those who drink milk ?
I trust someday either in this aged or the nexr age God will see to it I eat meat and no longer drink milk but until then I hope you both can be patient with me.
what seems insignificant to the both of you brothers of mine may be very significant to me as Im still learning who God is and.who I am in God.
God bless you both.
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