> General Discussions
Not forsaking the assembling...
Jeff:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on March 08, 2016, 08:10:16 PM ---
--- Quote from: largeli on March 08, 2016, 06:53:20 PM ---Does our only hope for friendship rest in whether or not someone believes what we believe?
--- End quote ---
Not for me, it doesn't. But my only hope for "EPI-SUNAGOGE , THE ABOVE SYNAGOGUE, THE HIGHER MEETING, THE HIGHEST ASSEMBLY, THE HIGHER-THAN-ALL-GATHERINGS! is with those who believe. I can even have this with someone who looks, talks, or behaves differently. But the faith divides. Without it, there is a limit to how "high" the fellowship can go, and "wishing" doesn't make it different.
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I have yet to meet someone that I can fellowship with, apart from this forum. To have that would be extraordinary. It's human to want to be connected that way to someone else. But I can be content with this, and I think it might perform a useful service - our being separated geographically - it makes me yearn for that eventual fellowship with God beyond this church age. He doesn't reveal Himself to me in that way, so to think about what that might be like, is exciting.
lareli:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on March 08, 2016, 08:10:16 PM ---
--- Quote from: largeli on March 08, 2016, 06:53:20 PM ---Does our only hope for friendship rest in whether or not someone believes what we believe?
--- End quote ---
Not for me, it doesn't. But my only hope for "EPI-SUNAGOGE , THE ABOVE SYNAGOGUE, THE HIGHER MEETING, THE HIGHEST ASSEMBLY, THE HIGHER-THAN-ALL-GATHERINGS! is with those who believe. I can even have this with someone who looks, talks, or behaves differently. But the faith divides. Without it, there is a limit to how "high" the fellowship can go, and "wishing" doesn't make it different.
--- End quote ---
You said your only hope for episunagoge is with those who 'believe'... Believe what? Believe the flood was not world wide? The age of the earth, Eternal hell, free will, trinity, love your neighbor as yourself? How would you ever know if someone believes things exactly as you do? And even if they believe everything you do they can still be just a noisy gong..
You said you can have this episunagoge with someone who behaves differently... But doesn't belief and behavior go hand in hand? "If you know all mysteries yet don't have love.."
Mike Gagne:
Hi largeli,
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
Proverbs 9:6 (KJV)
6 Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding
2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV)
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
Ephesians 5:11 (KJV)
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
1 Corinthians 5:13 (KJV)
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
R.P and Joy Michael
Dave in Tenn:
Largeli, firstly my faith isn't in floods, creations, or anything else. My faith is in Jesus Christ. Secondly, YES--the higher the 'agreement' over other matters, the higher the fellowship--especially when these matters are near or at the heart of your heart. That should go without saying. Otherwise, the topic is either avoided (not always a bad thing) or is argued (also not always a bad thing).
I don't have many friends...not even a large, close, extended family. My closest natural friend is 'almost' a believer in the salvation of all, but we don't share the same beliefs on other matters important to me. As much as I like (even love) him, there is a separation there and nothing closes that. That's OK with me, however. I don't even BELIEVE I'm required to have the same level of brotherly LOVE for everybody equally all the time. Of the twelve, Jesus hung out most with three...but He loved them all.
I'm not trying to actively diminish the level of fellowship with "unbelievers". I'm just recognizing that the fellowship WITH believers is HIGHER, with others less High--on down the line until I can have no fellowship with them whatsoever. Regardless, my faith covers them all, in that they are all included in the ultimate salvation of God.
It's true that genuine faith affects behavior...maybe ALL faith affects behavior. The relationship fo faith to works was much better covered by Ray than I could ever do, much less in a forum post. If it makes you feel better, there are scattered "universalists" that I can't have fellowship with...not because somebody told me it was "wrong", but simply because I can't.
You're asking me this question (these questions) as if I am a theological hobbyist, or another guy with a bible. No. I LIVE this 'stuff'. It's the most important thing in my life, and arches over and bubbles into every other important thing in my life. No, I'm not a bible-scholar, and I can't even 'think on these things' 24/7...but I do often enough that it affects and illuminates every aspect of my life from abject failure to glimmers of hope.
Kat:
--- Quote from: largeli on March 08, 2016, 06:53:20 PM ---Fellowship with like minded believers is one thing but what about fellowship with other humans in general? Are most of us isolationists? Aside from what is necessary (work, grocery shopping, being cordial with our neighbor etc) Do we forsake human interaction and relationship with other people whether they believe what we do or not?
I'm wondering this partly because I've read multiple posts that talk about how lonely it is to believe what most of the church does not believe. Does our only hope for friendship rest in whether or not someone believes what we believe?
--- End quote ---
I guess it depends on what you think fellowship and friendship is.
This is from Webster's on E-Sword.
FEL'LOWSHIP, n.
1. Companionship; society; consort; mutual association of persons on equal and friendly terms; familiar intercourse.
FRIEND'SHIP, n.
1. An attachment to a person, proceeding from intimate acquaintance, and a reciprocation of kind offices, or from a favorable opinion of the amiable and respectable qualities of his mind.
It's a close relationship, it's much more than just an acquaintance, but somebody you can really talk to and share personal information with... at least that's the way I'm seeing it. God only has a very few that He is preparing out of this world to be in the first resurrection... they are to separate from worldly minded people in order to understand God. I'm not saying to totally avoid them, but not develop that close friendship. Because what I have seen is that worldly people have there minds set on worldly things, it's understandable that's all they know. But we should be trying to become spiritual minded,
Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
I can even remember being that way myself before my eyes were opened. But even though we may have years to learn and live/practice putting on the new man/woman, I think it requires a high degree of devotion.
Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness...
Eph 4:22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
v. 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
v. 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Remember the Bible study 'How Hard is Getting Saved?' Here's a comment from there; "“getting saved” is the hardest most difficult thing that any human being in the history of the universe will ever do. There is nothing harder than “getting saved”. Are you hearing me? It is the hardest thing any human being will ever do in all of eternity. It’s the ultimate hard task."
So what I'm getting at is that a very few are sort of in training and it requires our devotion to God above all others. That requires we give Him our time in pray, studying His Word and meditation on it and those of like mind that we can discuss these truths with.
Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and heard them questioning together, and knowing that he had answered them well, asked him, What commandment is the first of all?
v. 29 Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:
v. 30 and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength.
What you have your mind on most of the time is where your heart lies "No one can serve two masters" (Matt 6:24). If we really love God, then we want to spend as much time with Him as we can. There are so many Scripture that support that being too closely involved with worldly minded people is putting them before our serving/obeying God.
James 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
1John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
Here is a place that Ray had spoke about this in his 'Love' Bible study.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3719.0 ----
2Cor 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
v. 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
v. 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols?"
People always use this as referring to a wedding. "Don’t be unequally yoked" together with somebody who doesn’t believe in God. Well, that would fit. But that’s not what it’s talking about. That’s just one application of it, don’t be unequally yoked together with people like this.
Well, my next door neighbor, is not a wife beating, drug dealing, you know, monster. So I can be yoked together with him, right. No! He doesn’t believe these truths.
v
By the way, this was a revelation to me. Do you know several places in the New Testament, where it says "kiss," it means kiss (a smacking sound with the lips). Well guess what that word is? It’s the same word phileo.
Phileo not only means affectionate love and adoration, and fondness for fellow brothers or sisters, it means kiss. Because you kiss someone you’re fond of, that’s how close they are connected.
So God does not tell us, we have to phileo our enemies or that we have to phileo our next door neighbor.
Agapao is a more formal, it’s not a give and take, two-way street. It’s a one-way street, forgiving humanity for the evil that they have.
v
Remember I gave you two definitions, and I said agapao is like a one-way street. The good Samaritan did not expect anything in return, for helping that man, who was dying on the side of the road, it’s a one-way love.
But then I said, this phileo, this brotherly love, this affectionate love, this give you a kiss on the cheek love, this is like a two-way street. That the reason we have this love for a close friend or wife and children, is because they reciprocate. You hug them, they hug you back. You do a favor for them, they do a favor for you back. You help them, they help you, you feel sad, when they feel sad, they feel sad when you feel sad. That’s why you get so close, you support each other, you love each other, you’re physically in contact, you see.
v
We can love our neighbor, with an agape love, we don’t need to fellowship, hobnob with them or become part of what they are, in any way, shape or form. When God says, love your enemies... If it said you would have to phileo your enemies, then I would just have to take my 9 pages of notes here, tear them up, throw them away. Close the Bible and say, I have not a clue as to what this thing about love is, not a clue.
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mercy, peace and love
Kay
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