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Did I not hate God enough ?
rick:
--- Quote from: Jeff on June 25, 2016, 01:29:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: Rick on June 16, 2016, 03:44:30 PM ---I don't remember hating God but I do remember being afraid of God....no not afraid of God but afraid of what He could do to me me.....Im referring to the Christian propaganda.
I'm angry today and my anger is towards God, one would think if you believe in God things should be getting better not worst but in all honesty my life is pure b/s , if my life is solemnly Gods intentions then what my life is must be according to God.
I'm trying to figure out how all the evil in the world is going to make me a better person or in Gods image ? The bible says we are either a slave to sin or to righteousness, I thought about that and concluded either way I'm a slave , some say your better being a slave to righteousness than sin but do we get to decide which we shall be ?
It's God who decides what I am or is it me who decides what I am ? Or is there something causing me to be what I am ? maybe today God decided I should be angry towards Him , looking at my life and knowing its of God then maybe God wants me to hate Him, to feel some kind of rage against Him.
I never felt hatred towards God or some rage against Him just fear maybe that's why things aren't getting better just worst. Maybe I was supposed to hate God in the beginning before coming to know His truths but that would be impossible because all is of God.
It's true that God is awesome and that His plan for all of us is good I just don't feel any love towards God today because all the circumstances He sends me causes my life to be just pure b/s.
I hope ur having a better day than me .
--- End quote ---
Rick,
I posted something not too long ago that is almost a mirror of what you wrote here. I certainly don't have answers to your questions, but the kind people here most likely will provide some very pertinent Scriptures for you, excellent advice, and an assurance that God's will is with you every moment of every day.
What I'd like to share with you is sympathy and hopefully a sense that you're not alone. I understand first-hand what you seem to be experiencing. God brought us to this place of refuge and learning, and yet for some of us, it would seem that our walk with God is in decline - we seem to be going in the opposite direction from what we might expect, after having learned such amazing truths about the Scriptures and our Creator.
Kat responded to my post with something that comforted me (as she and others so often do :))) by saying that "for some, the walk is more difficult than it is for others". This, in its simplicity, is profound. It told me that it's understood that we will not all experience life in the same way, but that God is still in control, he has not abandoned us, he's just working to teach each of us something unique, according to how he created us individually. We are all the same, but certainly we are created different in such a way that it serves God's purpose. We are the hands, or the feet, or the head, etc, and we each have a purpose in the body of Christ.
You are not alone in your struggle Rick, and while I pray that you do not suffer any more than you have to, I'm also encouraged to know that I'm not alone. in spirit I'm walking with you, knowing indirectly what you are facing each day.
My life took an unexpected turn about a year ago. Without going into detail. I can say that what happened seems to be drawing me away from God, further each day, and it's brought me to a place of fear and utter despair. I have no power to change anything, so this is God's will, and my lot. I don't know the reason, but there must be one, and it has a purpose.
A few days ago, I found myself telling God that I hated him for what he's doing to me. I've never done that before. I was ashamed, but I also had a sense that God knew what I was feeling. I've since repented, but am no closer to understanding my circumstances.
I know that one day this will all make sense, but for now it's simply horrifying to me, and I get up each morning knowing that there's nothing I can do but get through the day as best I can. It's all God, the good and bad in my life, and he's using it all to prepare me.
This may not be much comfort, but I want you to know that I understand, and you are not alone.
Jeff
--- End quote ---
Hi Jeff
I was at first delighted with the understanding Ray had of the after life, his knowledge of God was of great comfort to me in that hell or the lake of fire was not anything like I had learned from CCDs classes.
Ray said some profound things , things that were important to me and without any doubt in my understanding this website was God sent and I believe I did not stumbled upon this site but Was lead here by an appointment which was made by God not me.
As I analyze my life I've come to understand I lived life with eyes closed or lack of understanding it's true meaning .
I have reaped where I have not sown but what Ray had sown as it was Ray who put thousands of hours in study of Gods truths I understand That the choice Ray made to study as he did was the only possible choice he could of made.
Ray was totally blessed by God in knowledge and faith. I understand what God is doing is done with incredible love for His creation and when I reflect upon the crucifixion of Christ which was so brutal in nature I cannot deny Gods love seeing where such a brutal death was His choice.
I believe as long as I'm alive in this age life will be frustrating as well as agonizing with the few exceptions of a beautiful sunny day but most days just seem to be rainy days.
I understand well what your meaning is when you say it seems like things are going the opposite way but I must add and ask is our life really going opposed to the potter? I doubt it.
My hope of happiness and security is in Christ in the next age certainly not this age, like you I too sometimes pray to God at night that I don't wake up in the morning , to me how merciful that would be.
Perhaps I'm going through the lake of fire and that may explain why I feel as I do seeing that the lake of fire is in direct conflict with the carnal mind and all its understanding, no wonder God says that we should not lean to our own understanding as it could drive one insane.
I reject the system of this world and all its corruption and wickedness that seems to plague everyone's life.
God bless .
Flanagan:
Jesus said " if you love me you would obey me" So I pray that God will help me to love our Lord and of course if we love our Lord we will Love his Father. If I say I love Jesus I would be a liar because I know I'm not walking closely in his footsteps nor am I obeying all he taught us to obey. I pray that God will keep me from fooling myself and ask him to help me pray for the right things.
One thing I don't doubt though and that is that God Loves me that I'm the one lacking in my love towards God and his Son.
I do have faith that God will show me the way in his own time so I pray he will give me patience and long suffering for others but especially for myself.
Anyway Brother we all need help and we have come to good place for it.
rick:
Hello Flanagan,
What I feel sometimes is frustration in some of my response to certain circumstances I find myself in.
The times I say no to ideas that pop into my thinking process which I clearly understand to be sinful ends up enticing me and that very thing becomes yes and causes frustration.
When I think of the analogy of the Potter and the clay in conjunction with other scriptures I understand that no one can be a lone wolf outside the sovereignty of God and although I'm held accountable for every choice I make and all choices cannot be otherwise I do feel a certain inward peace knowing that all circumstances and choices are not in my control.
Understanding Gods sovereignty is one thing and believing it is another thing but to experience it is all together different.
When I had first come to B.t. I did so with the belief that man had free will and could go contrary to the will of God , Ray did a great job of explaining man has not a will that can go contrary to the intentions of God , if God wills anyone to go against His will then that anyone will do so but no one will ever go against Gods intention and if it's Gods intention one go against His will then it must be.
I find in somethings I go contrary to the will of God when I wish not to but I do understand I'm following Gods intentions without deviation.
God bless.
Kat:
Hi Rick, you are right when you said "that all circumstances and choices are not in my control"... God being sovereign makes that an impossibility. But certainly you can see that there is a purpose behind our having no free-will and the trials we face? I believe that purpose is for our learning... we come to knowledge by the things we experience and this learning experience is critical for our understanding of right from wrong.
This is from the Bible study on 'Free Will.'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12957.msg113686.html#msg113686 ---
LEARNING THROUGH STRUCTURED LIVING
If we had free will there is no guarantee that anyone would ever do anything right. Why? Because the will is always free, there is nothing there, no law, no principle to guide it to go this way or that. It’s always free to do whatever it wants. Always free, no hindrances. So if we think the world is chaotic now, imagine if people did have free will and God was not controlling things.
We are born in a structured environment and we are taught by our parents. We are taught how to play with things, we are taught how to eat and so on. We learn. We learn those things. Now those things that we learn are the things that cause us to think and do the things we do when we are a little older. You never forget how to walk when you are 6, 7, 8, 9. You will have learned it at age 1, but you are still doing it at age 5, 6, 7, 8, right? You learn these things. Robots don’t learn things like that.
Then we go to school. School is structured. You are not free to not go to class or not do your homework or not listen to the instructions, you will flunk out. People do flunk out, but what I’m saying is the structure is there to help you to learn. Hopefully to learn to do things better and more beneficial for humanity, it’s the derelicts that drop out. Why do they? Because they are not learning, they are not inculcating the good principles that they should have been learning as children. So they are operating by the law of sin and death, by their lusts. They are still operating under law, but those that become more useful, they learn to operate under a structured environment. When you go to work for somebody, they tell you how and what to do, you’re not free to just do it any ole way. There is structure you see.
God is putting us through a lifetime of all kinds of structured living and we are suppose to learn from that. Whether we are rebels or saints we do learn. Even criminals learn how to do things, some of them are very clever.
We are so far from robots... we are so marvelously made that it’s almost an insult to suggest that either you have free will or you are a robot, that’s just nonsense.
So we learn. Now that is one of the things that separates us from a robot, we learn.
v
What makes real sense is to be able to learn things. To learn things and based on what you learned make sound decisions.
If people had free will and they never learned anything, it would be totally useless. But the minute you start talking about learning, you start throwing out the free will. Because now you base what you do and think, not on your freedom of will, but on what you learned.
Some people will say phrases like, ‘well you can’t legislate morality.’ Well that has a certain amount of truth to it, you can legislate some morality.
You know we have speed limits for example, some people go over a little bit, but you can’t drive down this highway 120, at least you won’t do it too often or you will go to jail. If you go to jail too often or stay there too long, guess what? You won’t want to do that anymore. You can have your freedom of will or whatever you think you’ve got, but you won’t want to do that anymore. Because you have ‘learned’ that when you do this, the consequences are that, and ‘that’ is not much fun. You learn.
The very fact that we learn to do things and learn to do the right things, now that makes sense.
v
If there is a God and He is the creator God, then of course His power is just unfathomable and He knows the future. If the future is known then it can’t be otherwise. Therefore all choices have to be as they are, they cannot be otherwise. They are not free to be otherwise.
THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH
So God not only has to know the future, He has to know every single chain of events leading up to whatever the future is.
It says in Romans 8. The “carnal mind,” that is the unregenerate, perverted, reprobate mind of humanity, as we are before we learn to do anything good or right, “is not subject to the law of God.” But therefore it is lawless, right? He said free will is lawless and if the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God, then it is lawless? So then it can have free will, right? Wrong paleface, let me show you. Just because it is not subject to the law of God, doesn’t mean it’s not subject to law.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
v. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity (means hatred, animosity) against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can (or able to) be.
So if carnal minded people who are not converted are not subject to the law of God then they are free to do whatever they want, right? Because they can’t be subject to the law, which tells them or shows them or makes them live a particular way. Then they are free, right? Nope, go back to verse 2.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.
See that, we will all follow “the law of sin and death.” It’s one law or the other, you are under law. We are under law one way or the other. We are under law, we cannot get away from that.
v
With people when you say you don’t have a free will that can act independent from all of the circumstances that can cause you to do and say and think and be what you are. You say God’s in control! ‘Yes God’s in control. But then if I sin, God is making me sin.’ No! God doesn’t have to make us sin, we are sinning machines. We volunteer.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts He any man:
v. 14 But every man is tempted (how?), when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Does God make people sin? Does God make these dirty old men rape little children? That like the epitome of evil, does God make them do it? No! They volunteer. Do most of them even want to do it? They do it in secret, they do it at night. Why? They know it’s wrong. Well why do they do it then? Lust! Just plain lust.
Now here is the flip side of this. Sometimes you’ve got to read a little more of the context to get a fuller understanding of things.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.
That’s what we just saw. We either live by the spirit of life in Christ or we live by the law of sin and death.
James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
v. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights…
So there it is. Does God make people sin? No. But when anything good happens, it’s attributed to God. If you sin it’s attributed to your lust, He does not make you sin. But people when they get frustrated they will say things like that.
There are laws governing these things. “The law of sin and death” (Rom 8:2 ), that has to do with your lust and it’s built in. It takes power to overcome it. You can’t just decide, ‘well I won’t give in to my lust any more.’ It takes training, it takes judgment, it takes suffering. You have to suffer to overcome some faults they are so big and so hard and so strong and they take you over and they control you. It takes suffering, it takes something really strong sometimes to get you to stop doing those things.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
rick:
Hello Kat,
Yes, I certainly see there is a purpose behind no free will and the trials which come to each of us, having no free will is in reality a blessing to each and every person because it takes away the responsibility of sin from us making God responsible and leaving us only accountable for all sins we commit.
I understand fully that nothing in anyone's experience should ever be considered as being in vain because what ever one goes through is nothing less than the experience of God working out His plan in ones life .
I only speak of things in the present that I experience and sometimes with lack of knowledge of what I perceive and those things I perceive may have no truth at all to it such as I might feel that God does not love me but I know He does or that God has forsaken His creation but I know He has not.
I'm not sure how much truth is in this statement which is, God sees us as we will be not as we are ,but I never see me as The finished product but quite the opposite , a work in progress.
God bless.
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