> General Discussions
Make disciples
indianabob:
Hi Alex,
Regarding your comments below. Am I also to understand that the Scrolls used in the Temple and in synagogues in Jerusalem were in the same Hebrew script? If so it would seem possible (?) that Matthew would want to have his letter fit into the dialect used by folks who regularly attend Sabbath services to read from those scrolls as Jesus is reported to have done. Or was another language used by ordinary folks in Jerusalem?
Bob
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on July 11, 2016, 10:55:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: indianabob on July 11, 2016, 10:03:36 PM ---Hi Alex,
Very helpful commentary.
Did you mean to say that Matthew dated to 1300 BC?
The earliest copy of the hebrew matthew we have dates around 1300 BC but in it,...
Indiana bob
--- End quote ---
Hi Bob,
Matthew greek copies earliest dating i think are ~50-150AD. You'd have to google though the exact date. What i was saying though is the original language matthew wrote his gospel in was in hebrew and then translated to greek based on it and that's the earliest we have now is the greek translations. However there exists a copy of the hebrew but tthat earliest copy dates ~1300-1400 and so the greek versions go back further even though it seems the very first gospel matthew penned was in hebrew. So this hebrew copy could be argued to be translated from the greek and not a copy of the original passed down through the centuries but like I said there is evidence it may be a copy of the hebrew and not a translation from the greek, case and point being how this hebrew version lacks the reference to making disiciples and the trinity which all the greek versions appear to have.
Hopefully that makes sense. There is ample evidence to suggest matthew wrote his gospel in hebrew including from jerome himself who translated the greek to latin ~350AD.
--- End quote ---
Kat:
I did not realize that Alex was using a rather obscure means to discredit that verse. So going back to your original question.
--- Quote from: largeli on July 11, 2016, 12:57:50 PM ---What should making disciples look like today?
Matt 28:19
"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
--- End quote ---
There is a huge difference in what it was like for the Apostles in that first century and what it is like for us now. For one thing the church has went into the whole world and has made disciples in all nations... 1/3 of the world's population is Christian. They are the called, they believe that God sent His Son in the flesh and the gospel message, in a literal sense of course, but the world does know about Christ Jesus through them. The Apostles started that off and the church continues that to this day and we were once a part of the church.
Now the called are where God draws out His chosen from, that is where we find ourselves now and I do not believe 'we' need to be concerned with making disciples of the nations. That's my thinking anyway.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lareli:
Thank you Alex and others for taking the time and offering up such well researched answers and scriptures.
Alex you mentioned the cloud of witnesses.. So the cloud of witnesses is not talking about saints who have died before us and watch our lives here on earth. That is what I heard the church teach but even now as I type it I realize that it's not correct because the dead are dead and not consciously watching and witnessing us here... But the cloud of witnesses is talking about many scriptures that confirm truths? Am I understanding that right? Also the scriptures that talk about 'many counsellors' isn't necessarily talking about having many human teachers or pastors, but 'many counsellors' like the 'cloud of witnesses' is referring to many scriptures that confirm bible truths?
Am I way off here?
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Kat on July 12, 2016, 09:57:45 AM ---
I did not realize that Alex was using a rather obscure means to discredit that verse. So going back to your original question.
--- Quote from: largeli on July 11, 2016, 12:57:50 PM ---What should making disciples look like today?
Matt 28:19
"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
--- End quote ---
There is a huge difference in what it was like for the Apostles in that first century and what it is like for us now. For one thing the church has went into the whole world and has made disciples in all nations... 1/3 of the world's population is Christian. They are the called, they believe that God sent His Son in the flesh and the gospel message, in a literal sense of course, but the world does know about Christ Jesus through them. The Apostles started that off and the church continues that to this day and we were once a part of the church.
Now the called are where God draws out His chosen from, that is where we find ourselves now and I do not believe 'we' need to be concerned with making disciples of the nations. That's my thinking anyway.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Hi Kat,
I believe your thinking is completely reasonable. I think there are many ways to approach this. You'll have to excuse my angle of approach. I simply chose to approach the topic from a matter of authenticity. Since the spurious passages list does not list Matthew 28:19 as spurious, then it must be authentic, correct? Well not necessarily and that's what I was getting at. Apologies if it caused some confusion.
God bless,
Alex
lilitalienboi16:
Dear Bob,
I'm not sure I completely understand your asking but to my knowledge both greek and hebrew were the language of the jews (the ordinary folk) in jerusalem at the time of our Lord and shortly there after before its destruction in 70AD. It would make sense then that matthew chose hebrew to address the jews when writting his gospel.
Dear Largeli,
I think there are many facets to scripture which are true so long as one doesn't contradict the sum of God's Word and can establish it in the mouth of two or three witnesses.
If you read Hebrew 12:1, and the chapter before, you'll see the author is referring to the patriachs of old as the 'cloud of witness.' But let me ask, where does learn and hear about the lives of these patriarchs and their testimony? Where do we get our understanding, by the grace of God, of these witnesses? In the Word of God--The Scriptures!
The Word of God, The scriptures, they which testify of God, who stand before the Lord of all the earth, they are the witnesses and God has given them great power.
So I don't think you misunderstood me at all.
God bless,
Alex
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