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Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution
Dave in Tenn:
I'm just going to post these here for anybody without e-sword or such:
Persecute
G1377
διώκω
diōkō
Thayer Definition:
1) to make to run or flee, put to flight, drive away
2) to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after
2a) to press on: figuratively of one who in a race runs swiftly to reach the goal
2b) to pursue (in a hostile manner)
3) in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one
3a) to persecute
3b) to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something
4) without the idea of hostility, to run after, follow after: someone
5) metaphorically, to pursue
5a) to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a prolonged (and causative) form of a primary verb dio (to flee; compare the base of G1169 and G1249)
Citing in TDNT: 2:229, 177
That's what the word means. We know by the "persecution" events what actually took place. Here's a list of scripture where the word appears. I challenge you to look them all up and read around them as well, and to "replace" the word "persecution" or "persecute" with the main "definitions" above. There's 48 of them. That's a lot, I know...but this topic has come up so frequently over the years I think a good study is worth it.
Let's take this word out of the mouths of preachers. Let's own it.
G1377
διώκω
diōkō
Total KJV Occurrences: 48
persecuted, 13
Mat_5:10, Mat_5:12, Joh_15:20, Act_7:52, Act_22:4, Act_26:11, 1Co_4:12, 1Co_15:9, 2Co_4:9, Gal_1:13, Gal_1:23, Gal_4:29, Rev_12:13
follow, 8
Luk_17:23, Rom_14:19, 1Co_14:1, Phi_3:12, 1Th_5:15, 1Ti_6:11, 2Ti_2:22, Heb_12:14
persecute, 8
Mat_5:11, Mat_5:44, Mat_10:23, Mat_23:34, Luk_21:12, Joh_5:16, Joh_15:20, Rom_12:14
persecutest, 6
Act_9:4-5 (2), Act_22:7-8 (2), Act_26:14-15 (2)
persecution, 3
Gal_6:11-12 (2), 2Ti_3:12
suffer, 3
Gal_6:11-12 (2), 2Ti_3:12
followed, 2
Rom_9:30-31 (2)
after, 1
Rom_14:19
ensue, 1
1Pe_3:11
given, 1
Rom_12:13
persecuting, 1
Phi_3:6
press, 1
Phi_3:14
Here's what Paul said about his own "διώκω-ing".
Act 22:7 Besides, I fall flat, and I hear a voice saying to me, 'Saul! Saul! Why are you persecuting Me?'"
Act 22:8 Yet I answered and said, 'Who art Thou, Lord?' Besides, He said to me, 'I am Jesus, the Nazarene, Whom you are persecuting.'"
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not competent to be called an apostle, because I persecute the ecclesia of God."
1Co 15:10 Yet, in the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace, which is in me, did not come to be for naught, but more exceedingly than all of them toil I - yet not I, but the grace of God which is with me."
Gal 1:13 For you hear of my behavior once, in Judaism, that I inordinately persecuted the ecclesia of God and ravaged it."
Gal 1:14 And I progressed in Judaism above many contemporaries in my race, being inherently exceedingly more zealous for the traditions of my fathers."
Php 3:4 And am I having confidence in flesh, also? If any other one is presuming to have confidence in flesh, I rather:"
Php 3:5 in circumcision the eighth day, of the race of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews, in relation to law, a Pharisee,
Php 3:6 in relation to zeal, persecuting the ecclesia, in relation to the righteousness which is in law, becoming blameless."
And a little about his own thoughts about being "διώκω-ed"
Gal 4:28 Now you, brethren, as Isaac, are children of promise."
Gal 4:29 But even as then, the one generated according to flesh persecuted the one according to spirit, thus also it is now."
With all of that, I believe I can safely say that some of us HAVE PERSECUTED, and further, probably all of us have BEEN PERSECUTED. We just don't know what it really means, so we don't understand that we have.
Maybe some of that will help.
acomplishedartis:
Persecute: to pursue in such a way as to injure or afflict : harass; esp : to cause to suffer because of belief. (Merriam-Webster)
1) to make to run or flee, put to flight, drive away
2) to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after
3) in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one
3b) to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For somebody to persecute someone he must have certain amount of power over him. Now, using power over others, comes in many forms.
Hard power,means to influence the behavior or interests of other political bodies. is often aggressive (coercion)
so this was the kind of power being most used in the apostle's times.
then, there is also this other form of power which is more subtle:
Soft power
* ability to attract and co-opt rather than by coercion (hard power), using force or giving money as a means of persuasion. Soft power is the ability to shape the preferences of others through appeal and attraction. A defining feature of soft power is that it is noncoercive.
soft power is more than just persuasion or the ability to move people by argument, though that is an important part of it. It is also the ability to attract, and attraction often leads to acquiescence.
Soft power avoids the need for expensive hard power expenditures.
The main goal of the persecution, is to change something. If we are just like them, then there is no persecution.
So when I find my self in a situation where I am being hurt (or loose money) for doing the right thing--I guess this is my persecution...
when I suffer for having to get away from people that I know that will change me for worst (spiritually) in the long run--I guess this is my persecution...
when I have to deal with so many distractions and problems that can pull me away from my spiritual well being--I guess this is my persecution...
Sometimes I feel like a secret agent in a special mission or as a foreign anywhere I am.
When Paul was persecuted and suffered violence, in times it used to give courage to his brothers to be more bold. Sometimes the use of hard power creates more resistance and the persecuted become more brave.
When we are being persecuted on such a passive way, sometimes it can be even more dangerous. Soft power applied on the right way can change us slowly and silently (we don't even see it) and it's usually even cheaper for the persecutors.
Think about it, If things would become worst and more difficult, why would the persecution would become any lighter?
just an opinion...
Flanagan:
I wasn't talking about our apathy, rather the apathy of those around us.
Babylon the Great, I could see it getting pretty nasty for all professing to be followers of Christ.
Kat:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on September 19, 2016, 10:31:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: largeli on September 19, 2016, 07:47:45 PM ---Hellisfake
Perhaps we don't see persecution because those who are living godly lives after Christ are very few. We all would like to think we are living godly but maybe we're just not.
Christ preached peace, love and forgiveness. I can think of a few others who did the same and were murdered for it. John Lennon, MLK Jr. Gandhi, etc.
--- End quote ---
Putting those three ordinary men in the same category as Jesus? Give me a break. Twilight Zone. Total lack of proper education in today's schools.
Spiritually barfing here.
--- End quote ---
I can understand Hellisfake's comment, I didn't see that he was holding those people up as comparable to Christ's perfect life. It's jumping to your own conclusion saying he was putting them in the same category as Jesus. Just as Christ lead through example of non-violence and non-retaliation, the Apostles continued to follow His example, not as His equals, but lived as He did in their lives and became martyrs. Certainly Martin Luther King and even thought Gandhi was not a Christian, they were great non-violence and non-retaliation leaders for a just cause and were persecuted and martyrs for that. I think they are good example of modern day martyrs.
--- Quote from: Flanagan on September 20, 2016, 12:02:15 AM ---It's not over yet! Rev 6:11. In a time when some Christians are dying for their belief and others seem to have it easy, it's still a battle. Satan has his ways to get to us no matter what our circumstances.. If you're experiencing peace then study hard and pray all the time because the Great Tribulation is coming and it's going to be very hard for us all. It could be even harder on us who aren't feeling the persecution at this time, when it hits. God's Grace guide you.
I'm not sure but just plain apathy could be a harder form of persecution than outright physical violence. Think about it.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Flanagan on September 20, 2016, 03:34:38 AM ---I wasn't talking about our apathy, rather the apathy of those around us.
Babylon the Great, I could see it getting pretty nasty for all professing to be followers of Christ.
--- End quote ---
Many people are convinced that the great tribulation that is spoken of constantly in the church is coming... sounds like fear mongering to me. Tribulation and persecution is on God's people during their lives whenever they live, it's not coming only to those few elect that will live at the end of this age. God is preparing the chosen and will give them trials and correction as well, so they will learn what He needs them to, through the experiences they have. Tribulation and affliction is for God's people not the world, and it is provided precisely when and to what degree God determines. The world is in quite enough turmoil now in this age, and there will be God's wrath and indignation upon it in the next age.
This is From LoF series article 16. D4 Hell: 'Gehenna Fire Judgment.'
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm --------------------
The phrase "The great tribulation" is used hundreds of thousands of times by the Church, and yet (just as there is no such thing as "THE antichrist") there is no such phrase in the Bible as "The great tribulation." Oh there is tribulation and great tribulation alright, but not just one called "The" tribulation.
v
"Immediately after [does everyone understand the difference between 'before' and 'after?'] ...immediately after the tribulation of those days.... He [Jesus] shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet [I Cor. 15:52], and they shall gather together His elect [for the first time, I might also add] from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matt. 24:29 & 31).
One other major point: Clearly this verse and others show that Christ returns "after the tribulation of those days." "But in those days, after the tribulation... shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His Elect..." (Mark 13:24 & 27).
And Jesus is said to come in wrath:
"...hide us from the face of Him that sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of His wrath is come..." (Rev. 6:16-17)
"And the seventh angel sounded... [the seventh trump is the last trump, I Cor. 15:52] ...and Thy wrath is come..." (Rev. 11:18)
The days of "great tribulation" end at Christ's presence, and the day of "His wrath" begins at His presence. They are two separate and different events, and different judgments on different people for different purposes. If you have not seen or do not understand the absolute differences in Scripture between tribulation and affliction versus wrath and indignation, then be sure to read my ten-page section dealing with it in detail, in my paper "Exposing the Secret Rapture Theory."
Tribulation is almost exclusively administered to God's people. And just to remove any and all doubts concerning this, we will now cite every Scripture on tribulation in the entire Bible:
GOD DOESN'T RAPTURE HIS PEOPLE OUT OF TRIBULATION:
HE PUTS THEM THROUGH TRIBULATION
[Every Bible verse containing the word tribulation]
"When thou [God's people] art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shall be obedient unto his voice" (Deut. 4:30).
"Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you [God's people] in the time of your tribulation" (Judges 10:14).
"And, behold, as thy life was much set by this day in mine eyes, so let my life be much set by in the eyes of the Lord, and let him deliver me [God's servant] out of all tribulation" (I Sam. 26:24).
"Yet hath he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, by and by he [that one called by God] is offended" (Matt. 13:21)
"For then shall be great tribulation [when] 'they deliver you [God's Elect] up to be afflicted...' Ver. 9], such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matt. 24:21).
"Immediately after the tribulation [that must be 'endured unto the end' by God's Elect, Ver. 13] of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken" (Matt. 24:29).
"But in those days, after that tribulation [same as Matthew's account], the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light" (Mark 13:24).
"These things I have spoken unto you [Christ's disciples], that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" (John 16:33).
"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we [God's Elect] must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22).
"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man [first time the world is included with God's people in tribulation] that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile" (Rom. 2:9).
"And not only so, but we [God's Elect] glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation works patience" (Rom. 5:3).
"Who shall separate us [God's Elect] from the love of Christ? Tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?" (Rom. 8:35).
"Rejoicing in hope [God's Elect]; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer" (Rom. 12:12).
"Who comforts us in all our [God's Elect] tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God" (II Cor. 1:4).
"Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our [God's Elect] tribulation" (II Cor. 7:4).
"For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we [God's Elect] should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know" (I Thes. 3:4).
"Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them [our enemies] that trouble you [God's elect]" (II Thes. 1:6).
"I John, who also am your brother [God's Elect], and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Rev. 1:9).
"I know your [God's Church] works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9)
"Fear none of those things which you shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried; and you [God's Elect] shall have tribulation ten days: be you faithful unto death, and I will give you a crown of life" (Rev. 2:10).
"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them [God's Church] that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds" (Rev. 2:22).
"And I said unto him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they [God's Elect] which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14).
And so the Scriptures prove conclusively that tribulation, first and foremost, is administered to the Church; the House of God; God's Chosen Elect.
And so we are brought into Christ's "judgment" [Gk; 'judging'], high counsel, Gehenna fire, and prison. We are also taken through great tribulation. And along with all these we are to go through a plethora of spiritual transformations.
v
TRIBULATION: "...we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22). Strong's #2347, thlipsis, pressure (literally or figuratively): - afflicted, affliction, anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble." Notice the first word of definition: "pressure." Everyone knows that pressure brings about changes. The pressure at the bottom of the sea will flatten a submarine like a pancake. But spiritual pressure (which often involves physical pressure) brings about drastic changes in our character, and produces the spiritual fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control (Gal. 5:12-13).
v
Paul did not exaggerate when he declared:
"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22).
v
In II Thes. 1:4-5 Paul again reminds them of this tribulation, but adds an amazing statement to it:
"So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous JUDGMENT of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer."
Wow, here Paul plainly tells us that "...persecutions and tribulations... IS... the righteous Judgment of God..." Judgments are not always bad things that come upon us for committing sins. Judgment also involves trials, tests, persecution, tribulation, and many such things that sometimes makes life very difficult and uncomfortable, but also qualifies us to "...be counted worthy of the Kingdom of God."
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
lareli:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on September 19, 2016, 10:31:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: largeli on September 19, 2016, 07:47:45 PM ---Hellisfake
Perhaps we don't see persecution because those who are living godly lives after Christ are very few. We all would like to think we are living godly but maybe we're just not.
Christ preached peace, love and forgiveness. I can think of a few others who did the same and were murdered for it. John Lennon, MLK Jr. Gandhi, etc.
--- End quote ---
Putting those three ordinary men in the same category as Jesus? Give me a break. Twilight Zone. Total lack of proper education in today's schools.
Spiritually barfing here.
--- End quote ---
You know a tree by its fruit... Keep hurling insults if you like John but God used this man to spread a message of peace and love.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t_YXSHkAahE
I like the old twilight zone series... The guy at the beginning of each episode who says
"Imagine if you will, a world where..." Where people who spread a message of peace, harmony, and brotherly love, are hated and murdered.. You've now entered.. The Twilight Zone!
;)
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