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Author Topic: 1 Chronicles 28:9  (Read 2406 times)

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pg-91

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1 Chronicles 28:9
« on: October 30, 2016, 05:39:29 PM »

1 Chronicles 28:9, "And thou, Solomon, my son, know the God of thy father, and serve Him with a perfect heart, and with a willing mind, for all hearts is Jehovah seeking, and every imagination of the thoughts He is understanding; if thou dost seek Him, He is found of thee, and if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever"

I found this verse in the CLV, and don't really understand it. Isn't it a contradiction? Could someone help me out on this one?

Thanks, Gyula
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cheekie3

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2016, 07:26:09 AM »

Gyula -

1 Chronicles 28:9, "And thou, Solomon, my son, know the God of thy father, and serve Him with a perfect heart, and with a willing mind, for all hearts is Jehovah seeking, and every imagination of the thoughts He is understanding; if thou dost seek Him, He is found of thee, and if thou dost forsake Him, He casteth thee off for ever"

I found this verse in the CLV, and don't really understand it. Isn't it a contradiction? Could someone help me out on this one?

Thanks, Gyula

Does this help from the New Israelite Bible English Version (NIBEV):

"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and a willing mind; for Yahweh searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If ye seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever."

Kind Regards.

George

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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

pg-91

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2016, 07:33:32 AM »

George,

"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and a willing mind; for Yahweh searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If ye seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.

I have problems with that last part of this verse, how should I view it?

Gyula
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cheekie3

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2016, 07:50:18 AM »

Gyula -

George,

"As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and a willing mind; for Yahweh searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If ye seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.

I have problems with that last part of this verse, how should I view it?

Gyula

I thought you might.

Here are a few other versions:

1 Chronicles 28:9 Living Bible (TLB)
Solomon, my son, get to know the God of your fathers. Worship and serve him with a clean heart and a willing mind, for the Lord sees every heart and understands and knows every thought. If you seek him, you will find him; but if you forsake him, he will permanently throw you aside.

1 Chronicles 28:9-10 The Message (MSG)
ďAnd you, Solomon my son, get to know well your fatherís God; serve him with a whole heart and eager mind, for God examines every heart and sees through every motive. If you seek him, heíll make sure you find him, but if you abandon him, heíll leave you for good. Look sharp now! God has chosen you to build his holy house. Be brave, determined! And do it!Ē

1 Chronicles 28:9 GODíS WORD Translation (GW)
ďAnd you, my son Solomon, learn to know your fatherís God. Serve the Lord wholeheartedly and willingly because he searches every heart and understands every thought we have. If you dedicate your life to serving him, he will accept you. But if you abandon him, he will reject you from then on.

It seems to me, that Yahweh would give Solomon sufficient opportunity to do the right thing, and if not, in Solomon's physical life He would reject him and cast him off for good (or permanently, or for all of Soloman's physical life on the Earth).

I hope this helps.

Kind Regards.

George

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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

pg-91

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2016, 08:08:31 AM »

Thank you very much, George. Now it's more clear to me. Just you know it's strange that even one of the best translations, CLV has this "for ever" expression. And then we have to look up other versions to make it more clear.

What you writes after, that makes perfect sense to me, but now it's time to think about the other part, that Solomon of course is not able to do the right things by himself or dedicate his life to God by himself, so yeah a lot of things to meditate on.

Anyway, thanks again, you helped a lot!

Gyula
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cheekie3

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2016, 09:11:42 AM »

Gyula -

Thank you very much, George. Now it's more clear to me. Just you know it's strange that even one of the best translations, CLV has this "for ever" expression. And then we have to look up other versions to make it more clear.

What you writes after, that makes perfect sense to me, but now it's time to think about the other part, that Solomon of course is not able to do the right things by himself or dedicate his life to God by himself, so yeah a lot of things to meditate on.

Anyway, thanks again, you helped a lot!

Gyula

We know that not one of us can do 'good' at any time under this current Age of Grace or all the previous Ages, as 'good' only comes from Our Heavenly Father.

It is both true that Solomon did not do 'right' and could not do 'right' in this particular case - and Solomon himself must have understood that God enabled him to be wise as He gave Solomon great wisdom; yet for this particular matter Solomon did not do 'right'.

Kind Regards.

George

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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Dave in Tenn

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2016, 10:46:19 PM »

Guyla, we understand that there is no word in either biblical language which means "forever".  The word for "age" (equivelant to aion in the Greek) is Olam in the Hebrew.  That is not the word used in your verse.

The word is "ad", but it would be difficult to do a word study on it because it is a very common word with multiple meanings depending on how it falls in a "sentence".  Here are some other "words" into which it is translated elsewhere in the KJV:

Until and till (most often), as well as "how long" and several other words and phrases, many of which have nothing apparently to do with time or duration.

Given all that, I'd agree with Cheekie's assessment, but not strictly with every comment. 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

cheekie3

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2016, 05:45:08 AM »

Dave in Tenn -

Thank you for pointing out that the Hebrew word is "ad" - this makes a lot of sense:

Guyla, we understand that there is no word in either biblical language which means "forever".  The word for "age" (equivelant to aion in the Greek) is Olam in the Hebrew.  That is not the word used in your verse.

The word is "ad", but it would be difficult to do a word study on it because it is a very common word with multiple meanings depending on how it falls in a "sentence".  Here are some other "words" into which it is translated elsewhere in the KJV:

Until and till (most often), as well as "how long" and several other words and phrases, many of which have nothing apparently to do with time or duration.

Given all that, I'd agree with Cheekie's assessment, but not strictly with every comment.

Perhaps, it would be helpful to Gyula, the others on this Forum and myself, if you would kindly confirm which of my comments you did not agree with, and why - so it does not remain a mystery to us.

Kind Regards.

George
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

pg-91

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2016, 08:18:25 AM »

Dave, thank you very much. It makes this verse much more clear to me. As well as George, I'm also interested where your opinion differs.

Gyula
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pg-91

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2016, 08:45:12 AM »

George, now as I downloaded e-sword with some Bible versions and dictionaries, it seems to me that the versions (TLB,MSG) are far from being proper translations, related to the meaning of the word Dave said, "ad".

Now as I see the meaning of this verse is something like this: If you search the Lord, you will find Him, but if you forsake Him, He will cast off/reject you during that time.

Gyula
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cheekie3

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2016, 04:16:07 PM »

Gyula -

I am pleased that you got the meaning you were looking for.

George, now as I downloaded e-sword with some Bible versions and dictionaries, it seems to me that the versions (TLB,MSG) are far from being proper translations, related to the meaning of the word Dave said, "ad".

Now as I see the meaning of this verse is something like this: If you search the Lord, you will find Him, but if you forsake Him, He will cast off/reject you during that time.

Gyula

It is good that you have e-Sword as it is a very useful tool.

Do you also have a hardback Bible with a middle column with cross references to other Scriptures; as this is also a useful tool for finding two or three Scriptural Witnesses,

Kind Regards.

George



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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

pg-91

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2016, 04:49:34 PM »

George,

I have a New Testament translation which is quite close to the CLV translation, and it has references to other Scriptures at the end of each chapter, so it's pretty good. Unfortunately there is no translation for the Old Testament in Hungarian which is similar to the CLV, basically what I have is similar to the King James Bible.

Best regards, Gyula
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cheekie3

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2016, 05:25:59 PM »

Gyula -

George,

I have a New Testament translation which is quite close to the CLV translation, and it has references to other Scriptures at the end of each chapter, so it's pretty good. Unfortunately there is no translation for the Old Testament in Hungarian which is similar to the CLV, basically what I have is similar to the King James Bible.

Best regards, Gyula

That is good to know.

All the very Best.

George

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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Dave in Tenn

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2016, 06:08:42 PM »

George, now as I downloaded e-sword with some Bible versions and dictionaries, it seems to me that the versions (TLB,MSG) are far from being proper translations, related to the meaning of the word Dave said, "ad".

Now as I see the meaning of this verse is something like this: If you search the Lord, you will find Him, but if you forsake Him, He will cast off/reject you during that time.

Gyula

If I were translating it, that's the way I'd put it.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dave in Tenn

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2016, 06:21:41 PM »


We know that not one of us can do 'good' at any time under this current Age of Grace or all the previous Ages, as 'good' only comes from Our Heavenly Father.

My "disagreement" stems from a less theological understanding of "good".  We not only can do good, we are told to do good.  We're told that even the heathen can do good.  And we're told that good works are judged, and in a way not coinciding with evil works--the former are refined, the latter burned up.

But I see Cheekie put good in quotations, so I doubt he is talking about it like I am.  No need for long discussion over words. 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

John from Kentucky

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2016, 10:55:37 PM »

What does Jesus say?  Jesus said, "There is no one good but One, Who is God."

That is an absolute statement of Truth.

To say any man is good is just a relative statement compared to other men.

There truly are no good men.  One Scriptures says, "There are none righteous, no not one."  Another Scripture says, " All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

We are all just toads beneath the plow.  Any goodness in us solely comes from God, not from us.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2016, 11:35:02 PM »

I didn't say any man was good.  That's a statement of truth. 

On the other hand, Jesus didn't deny HE was good, nor did He deny He was God.  He asked a question in answering a question.  I answer His from multiple witnesses, not as the one who asked the first question might assume.

Good works exist, and (just as we do all the things we do), people can do them.  I gave up believing the old Baptist preacher that lives in my head preaching the "total depravity of man".

I reckon it takes more heat and time to refine gold and silver than to burn wood, hay, and stubble.  But that doesn't mean the gold is not gold, and the silver not silver. 

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

cheekie3

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2016, 06:32:52 AM »

Dave -

Thank you for clarifying, as this should help our understanding:


We know that not one of us can do 'good' at any time under this current Age of Grace or all the previous Ages, as 'good' only comes from Our Heavenly Father.

My "disagreement" stems from a less theological understanding of "good".  We not only can do good, we are told to do good.  We're told that even the heathen can do good.  And we're told that good works are judged, and in a way not coinciding with evil works--the former are refined, the latter burned up.

But I see Cheekie put good in quotations, so I doubt he is talking about it like I am.  No need for long discussion over words.

When I refer to good, I always think of Jesus when He said 'why do you call me good, there is only one that is good, and that is God (Yahweh)'. To me, the good in us can only ever come from Him, and He judges the intent of our hearts and not our outward appearances (which may appear good, but inwardly may not be).

Kind Regards.

George


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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

cheekie3

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2016, 06:34:46 AM »

John -

What does Jesus say?  Jesus said, "There is no one good but One, Who is God."

That is an absolute statement of Truth.

To say any man is good is just a relative statement compared to other men.

There truly are no good men.  One Scriptures says, "There are none righteous, no not one."  Another Scripture says, " All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

We are all just toads beneath the plow.  Any goodness in us solely comes from God, not from us.

I totally agree, as I am sure all of us here on this Forum do.

Kind Regards.

George

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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

cheekie3

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Re: 1 Chronicles 28:9
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2016, 06:40:46 AM »

Dave -

I didn't say any man was good.  That's a statement of truth. 

On the other hand, Jesus didn't deny HE was good, nor did He deny He was God.  He asked a question in answering a question.  I answer His from multiple witnesses, not as the one who asked the first question might assume.

Good works exist, and (just as we do all the things we do), people can do them.  I gave up believing the old Baptist preacher that lives in my head preaching the "total depravity of man".

I reckon it takes more heat and time to refine gold and silver than to burn wood, hay, and stubble.  But that doesn't mean the gold is not gold, and the silver not silver.

Did Jesus not say 'the words that I speak are not my own, and the One who sent me He doeth the works'?

I take that to mean, that all Jesus 'desired, thought, said, and did' were all from His Father - The Words (e.g. the forgiveness of sins) and The (Good) Works (of Healings and Miracles) were all of His and Our Father.

Kind Regards.

George

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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
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