1 Chronicles 28:9

[indianabob]

Good thinking George.
Exactly correct.
Thanks, Indiana Bob

[Dave in Tenn]

Jesus said:

Joh_5:36  But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh_10:25  Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh_10:32  Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh_10:37  If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh_10:38  But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Joh_14:12  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

I would reconcile that, but I won't.  If He didn't do the works of His Father, then don't believe Him.  Instead, explain to me how Jesus did not do the works He did. 

[cheekie3]

Dave -

Thank you for sharing this group of Scriptures; which reveal much about the Words and the Works that Jesus Christ Himself spoke and did:

Jesus said:

Joh_5:36  But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh_10:25  Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh_10:32  Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh_10:37  If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh_10:38  But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Joh_14:12  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

I would reconcile that, but I won't.  If He didn't do the works of His Father, then don't believe Him.  Instead, explain to me how Jesus did not do the works He did.

I believe it was 'John of Kentucky' who said to Alex on a recent Post 'not to be sorry for telling The Truths of Scriptures'.

At times, you Post cryptically, or state something, and not explain fully what you mean - and this leaves the rest of us to try and fathom exactly what you mean - which I do not believe is very helpful. I mean, as long as you are stating something in Love, what is the worse that can happen? One or more of us may not agree, or you may be corrected in part or more.

To me, it appears that you are perhaps focussing on what Jesus Christ did and said about Himself - and perhaps, not also taking into account what Jesus Christ Himself said about His relationship with His Farther (who commissioned Him to do The Father's Will). Or put another way, it is 'the sum of His Word' that confirms any particular 'Truth in The Scriptures'.

Anyway, I will attempt to reconcile The Scriptures you have quoted above:

1. To me, it is an Absolute Fact in Scripture that Jesus Christ Did Indeed 'desire, think, speak, and do the works that He was sent to Earth to do'.

2. To me, it is an Absolute Fact in Scripture that The Father is in Jesus Christ at all times, and Jesus Christ Did Indeed 'always do The Will of His Father who sent Him'.

3. To me, it is an absolute Fact in Scripture that Our Heavenly Father is 'The Beginning and Original Cause of All in His Creation (and this most assuredly includes The Life of Jesus Christ - and The Words Jesus Christ spoke, and The Works that Jesus Christ did)'.

4. To me, it is an absolute Fact in Scripture that every 'desire, thought, word and work that Jesus Christ had / had / spoke / did' originated from Our Heavenly Father; and Jesus Himself confirmed that His (Jesus') Words and Works were not His but His Father's (who sent Him).

5. To me, it is an absolute Fact in Scripture that Jesus Christ could NOT do anything at all without His Father in Heaven.

Is The Director at All times in Jesus Christ's Life not always Our Heavenly Father?
Is there a doubt that the Works were done by Jesus Christ?
Is there a doubt that the Words spoken by Jesus and the Works that Jesus did were 'The Father's?
Is there a doubt that Jesus Christ has a God; but Our Heavenly Father does not have a God?
Is there a doubt that Jesus Christ had a Beginning and did not exist before His Father Begat Him; but Our Heavenly Father has no Beginning, and did Indeed exist before He became a Father?

Sincere Regards.

George

[Dave in Tenn]

That makes at least two of us.  I frequently wonder whether anything I say or do anywhere is "very helpful". 

What I tried to do with those verses was counter over-statement, over-simplification, and over-complication.  Though they may not have appeared directly in this thread, I have read comments fairly lately which exude confusion over who does "the works" and whether or not there is any such thing as "good works".  I don't begrudge the questions, but I do begrudge some of the answers.  I can't help but carry the 'thinking' I did when they popped up into the space that follows. 

If I'm "cryptic", maybe I'm trying to elicit thought and not spoon-feeding.  Or maybe I'm just musing.  I'll grant you, that probably isn't very helpful. 

[cheekie3]

Dave -

Thank you for sharing this with all of us on this Forum:

That makes at least two of us.  I frequently wonder whether anything I say or do anywhere is "very helpful". 

What I tried to do with those verses was counter over-statement, over-simplification, and over-complication.  Though they may not have appeared directly in this thread, I have read comments fairly lately which exude confusion over who does "the works" and whether or not there is any such thing as "good works".  I don't begrudge the questions, but I do begrudge some of the answers.  I can't help but carry the 'thinking' I did when they popped up into the space that follows. 

If I'm "cryptic", maybe I'm trying to elicit thought and not spoon-feeding.  Or maybe I'm just musing.  I'll grant you, that probably isn't very helpful.

I am sure that all of us on this Forum value your input, and clarifications Dave - as you are most helpful in maturing our understanding.

I too dislike over-statements, over-simplifications, over-complications, misinformation, and assumptions - and we all rely on those mature IN Him, to assist and support us, in this - and this most assuredly includes you Dave.

Using cryptics to elicit thought is a very good tool (as I agree that spoon-feeding may not always be appropriate) - perhaps next time - I will PM you, when I do not fully understand what you are saying.

You are much appreciated Dave.

Very Kind and Warmest Regards.

George

[pg-91]

I absolutely agree with George, you are very helpful with your answers, Dave. Thanks for those, again!

Gyula

[indianabob]

George,
I agree and appreciate the way it was stated in your message to Dave seen in part below.
All is of the Father, the Creator, who is uncreated and the source of all things both physical and spirit composed.
I note that the physical healings performed by Jesus during his ministry were also later performed by many of his apostles, they had to be the work of Father God. Jn 14:10-14
Indiana Bob

Dave -



Joh_5:36  But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh_10:25  Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh_10:32  Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh_10:37  If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh_10:38  But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Joh_14:12  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

I would reconcile that, but I won't.  If He didn't do the works of His Father, then don't believe Him.  Instead, explain to me how Jesus did not do the works He did.

Anyway, I will attempt to reconcile The Scriptures you have quoted above:

""Note particularly the following enumerated sentences. I-Bob""
1. To me, it is an Absolute Fact in Scripture that Jesus Christ Did Indeed 'desire, think, speak, and do the works that He was sent to Earth to do'.

2. To me, it is an Absolute Fact in Scripture that The Father is in Jesus Christ at all times, and Jesus Christ Did Indeed 'always do The Will of His Father who sent Him'.

3. To me, it is an absolute Fact in Scripture that Our Heavenly Father is 'The Beginning and Original Cause of All in His Creation (and this most assuredly includes The Life of Jesus Christ - and The Words Jesus Christ spoke, and The Works that Jesus Christ did)'.

4. To me, it is an absolute Fact in Scripture that every 'desire, thought, word and work that Jesus Christ had / had / spoke / did' originated from Our Heavenly Father; and Jesus Himself confirmed that His (Jesus') Words and Works were not His but His Father's (who sent Him).

5. To me, it is an absolute Fact in Scripture that Jesus Christ could NOT do anything at all without His Father in Heaven.

Is The Director at All times in Jesus Christ's Life not always Our Heavenly Father?
Is there a doubt that the Works were done by Jesus Christ?
Is there a doubt that the Words spoken by Jesus and the Works that Jesus did were 'The Father's?
Is there a doubt that Jesus Christ has a God; but Our Heavenly Father does not have a God?
Is there a doubt that Jesus Christ had a Beginning and did not exist before His Father Begat Him; but Our Heavenly Father has no Beginning, and did Indeed exist before He became a Father?

Sincere Regards.

George
[/quote]

[Dave in Tenn]

I'm going to close the thread here, mostly because it has wandered far too far from the original post (thanks for making it wander, Dave).