> General Discussions
Fear
Porter:
--- Quote from: Musterseed on December 02, 2016, 09:14:54 PM --- Is God , was God and will be God using fear to have every knee bow and every tongue confess, in increments? I hope I was able to make my point, I'm not the best at expressing myself. Thanks 🙏🏼 Pamela
--- End quote ---
Hi Pamela,
One of the things that lead me to the truth was the fear of going to hell because my sins seemed too great that not even God could save me. I even came to the point where I accepted I was indeed destined for hell, and even told God that if my loved ones are there then that is where I would rather be also.
I knew something was wrong with this horrible doctrine, so it seems God inspired me to seek the truth which eventually lead me to bible truths website, and the rest is history :) It was quite humbling to find out that God was responsible with everything that was wrong in my life. So possibly by humbling the masses (each in his own order), inspiring them and gracing them will they willingly bow their knees and confess Jesus as Lord because for the first time they will understand that God is patient, merciful and God is love and love never fails.
The Apostle Paul said the way in which he was caused to believe and become converted is an example for how God will save everyone.
Act 9:3 As he traveled and was nearing Damascus, a light from heaven suddenly flashed around him.
Act 9:4 Falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
Act 9:5 "Who are You, Lord?" he said. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," He replied.
Act 9:6 "But get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."
1Ti 1:12 I give thanks to Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, appointing me to the ministry--
1Ti 1:13 one who was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an arrogant man. Since it was out of ignorance that I had acted in unbelief, I received mercy,
1Ti 1:14 and the grace of our Lord overflowed, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 1:15 This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners"--and I am the worst of them.
1Ti 1:16 But I received mercy because of this, so that in me, the worst of them, Christ Jesus might demonstrate the utmost patience as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
God seemed to have used fear with Paul to get his attention with the light that blinded Paul, but then afterwards God not only gave him his physical sight back, but God also removed the scales from his eyes so Paul could see the Truth.
Scriptures say there is a coming wrath upon the ungodly, so maybe this is how God will get humanities attention, then afterwards judgment, repentance and healing can begin.
I love that story of how God was saving Paul, it just gives me so much hope for everyone.
Rhys 🕊:
Great passage and encouraging with the fear man has how God will intervene for each one in His way at His time. The church thinks God will do it for some but not for most. What a terrible injustice they put on God with such belief.
Rhys
Musterseed:
Hello Porter and Rhys
Its heartbreaking I know. My husbands cousins are all messed up from believing that vile teaching.
But when we visited them this summer I noticed they weren't going to church much anymore and were talking about how they were tricked by the Catholic Church. I told them of Issah 45 and
That hell is a lie. My friend Mary was so relieved because her fifteen year old son committed suiside
And she believed he was in purgatory waiting to be judged. Anyway they were attentive and Mary has since become an advocate for suiside prevention. That's Gods Mercy right there. And our other friend has come out of her altogether and said" why should I have to confess to a priest when I can go straight to Jesus" how wonderful is the Lord. There is so much Hope in The Lord, I see changes every day. Yes it was fear that brought Paul to his knees and fear that brought me to my knees. I think it will be fear that brings the world to its knees. I really want to see the looks on those hypocrites faces when they see Jesus and then I would like to help them, for they need it the most.
God be with you. Pamela
cheekie3:
Pamela -
It is very encouraging when the seeds of His Words are planted, and over time, start to bear fruit:
--- Quote from: Musterseed on December 07, 2016, 10:48:34 PM ---Hello Porter and Rhys
Its heartbreaking I know. My husbands cousins are all messed up from believing that vile teaching.
But when we visited them this summer I noticed they weren't going to church much anymore and were talking about how they were tricked by the Catholic Church. I told them of Issah 45 and
That hell is a lie. My friend Mary was so relieved because her fifteen year old son committed suiside
And she believed he was in purgatory waiting to be judged. Anyway they were attentive and Mary has since become an advocate for suiside prevention. That's Gods Mercy right there. And our other friend has come out of her altogether and said" why should I have to confess to a priest when I can go straight to Jesus" how wonderful is the Lord. There is so much Hope in The Lord, I see changes every day. Yes it was fear that brought Paul to his knees and fear that brought me to my knees. I think it will be fear that brings the world to its knees. I really want to see the looks on those hypocrites faces when they see Jesus and then I would like to help them, for they need it the most.
God be with you. Pamela
--- End quote ---
All -
I just want to focus on the distinction between 'fear' and 'The Fear of The Lord'.
Unless I have got this completely wrong about Saul of Tarsus, it was not 'fear' that stopped him in His Tracks, it was The One he was persecuting (Jesus Christ Himself). Saul thought that he was righteous and was doing God's work, and I do not see that Saul was 'fearful' in what he was doing - as he was probably pleased with himself for 'doing his own good works'. If anything, Saul knew that it was God Himself who struck him down, and He identified Himself as Jesus (who Saul was persecuting).
Therefore, the only possible fear Saul could have had, as I see it, is that, Saul may have thought something like 'I thought I was serving God, when in fact I was fighting against Him and His Followers' - and yes, I am merely speculating here.
So, if Saul was in any kind of fear when Jesus struck him down, it could not be the 'fear that we are warned has torment' - it can perhaps, be, 'The Fear of The Lord' - as 'The Fear of The Lord' is both 'The Beginning of Knowledge', and also, 'The Beginning of Wisdom'.
When Saul was Named Paul by Jesus Christ, Paul certainly was given By Him an abundance of 'Knowledge' and 'Wisdom', which we all cherish as 'Gems of His Truths', and 'The deep Things of Almighty God'.
I do not see Saul was in fear - like some may be - of say, going to hell; as Saul thought he was 'righteous in doing God's work'.
To me, Saul was struck down by Jesus Christ - and Saul most certainly knew 'The Fear of The Lord'.
Warmest Regards.
George
Porter:
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on December 08, 2016, 03:59:07 AM ---Pamela -
It is very encouraging when the seeds of His Words are planted, and over time, start to bear fruit:
--- Quote from: Musterseed on December 07, 2016, 10:48:34 PM ---Hello Porter and Rhys
Its heartbreaking I know. My husbands cousins are all messed up from believing that vile teaching.
But when we visited them this summer I noticed they weren't going to church much anymore and were talking about how they were tricked by the Catholic Church. I told them of Issah 45 and
That hell is a lie. My friend Mary was so relieved because her fifteen year old son committed suiside
And she believed he was in purgatory waiting to be judged. Anyway they were attentive and Mary has since become an advocate for suiside prevention. That's Gods Mercy right there. And our other friend has come out of her altogether and said" why should I have to confess to a priest when I can go straight to Jesus" how wonderful is the Lord. There is so much Hope in The Lord, I see changes every day. Yes it was fear that brought Paul to his knees and fear that brought me to my knees. I think it will be fear that brings the world to its knees. I really want to see the looks on those hypocrites faces when they see Jesus and then I would like to help them, for they need it the most.
God be with you. Pamela
--- End quote ---
All -
I just want to focus on the distinction between 'fear' and 'The Fear of The Lord'.
Unless I have got this completely wrong about Saul of Tarsus, it was not 'fear' that stopped him in His Tracks, it was The One he was persecuting (Jesus Christ Himself). Saul thought that he was righteous and was doing God's work, and I do not see that Saul was 'fearful' in what he was doing - as he was probably pleased with himself for 'doing his own good works'. If anything, Saul knew that it was God Himself who struck him down, and He identified Himself as Jesus (who Saul was persecuting).
Therefore, the only possible fear Saul could have had, as I see it, is that, Saul may have thought something like 'I thought I was serving God, when in fact I was fighting against Him and His Followers' - and yes, I am merely speculating here.
So, if Saul was in any kind of fear when Jesus struck him down, it could not be the 'fear that we are warned has torment' - it can perhaps, be, 'The Fear of The Lord' - as 'The Fear of The Lord' is both 'The Beginning of Knowledge', and also, 'The Beginning of Wisdom'.
When Saul was Named Paul by Jesus Christ, Paul certainly was given By Him an abundance of 'Knowledge' and 'Wisdom', which we all cherish as 'Gems of His Truths', and 'The deep Things of Almighty God'.
I do not see Saul was in fear - like some may be - of say, going to hell; as Saul thought he was 'righteous in doing God's work'.
To me, Saul was struck down by Jesus Christ - and Saul most certainly knew 'The Fear of The Lord'.
Warmest Regards.
George
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on December 08, 2016, 03:59:07 AM ---Pamela -
It is very encouraging when the seeds of His Words are planted, and over time, start to bear fruit:
--- Quote from: Musterseed on December 07, 2016, 10:48:34 PM ---Hello Porter and Rhys
Its heartbreaking I know. My husbands cousins are all messed up from believing that vile teaching.
But when we visited them this summer I noticed they weren't going to church much anymore and were talking about how they were tricked by the Catholic Church. I told them of Issah 45 and
That hell is a lie. My friend Mary was so relieved because her fifteen year old son committed suiside
And she believed he was in purgatory waiting to be judged. Anyway they were attentive and Mary has since become an advocate for suiside prevention. That's Gods Mercy right there. And our other friend has come out of her altogether and said" why should I have to confess to a priest when I can go straight to Jesus" how wonderful is the Lord. There is so much Hope in The Lord, I see changes every day. Yes it was fear that brought Paul to his knees and fear that brought me to my knees. I think it will be fear that brings the world to its knees. I really want to see the looks on those hypocrites faces when they see Jesus and then I would like to help them, for they need it the most.
God be with you. Pamela
--- End quote ---
All -
I just want to focus on the distinction between 'fear' and 'The Fear of The Lord'.
Unless I have got this completely wrong about Saul of Tarsus, it was not 'fear' that stopped him in His Tracks, it was The One he was persecuting (Jesus Christ Himself). Saul thought that he was righteous and was doing God's work, and I do not see that Saul was 'fearful' in what he was doing - as he was probably pleased with himself for 'doing his own good works'. If anything, Saul knew that it was God Himself who struck him down, and He identified Himself as Jesus (who Saul was persecuting).
Therefore, the only possible fear Saul could have had, as I see it, is that, Saul may have thought something like 'I thought I was serving God, when in fact I was fighting against Him and His Followers' - and yes, I am merely speculating here.
So, if Saul was in any kind of fear when Jesus struck him down, it could not be the 'fear that we are warned has torment' - it can perhaps, be, 'The Fear of The Lord' - as 'The Fear of The Lord' is both 'The Beginning of Knowledge', and also, 'The Beginning of Wisdom'.
When Saul was Named Paul by Jesus Christ, Paul certainly was given By Him an abundance of 'Knowledge' and 'Wisdom', which we all cherish as 'Gems of His Truths', and 'The deep Things of Almighty God'.
I do not see Saul was in fear - like some may be - of say, going to hell; as Saul thought he was 'righteous in doing God's work'.
To me, Saul was struck down by Jesus Christ - and Saul most certainly knew 'The Fear of The Lord'.
Warmest Regards.
George
--- End quote ---
This seems to be directed toward me a little bit with my comments about God using fear to get Paul's attention. So here is how Im coming to this conclusion.
Pay attention to all the words.
Act 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6 And he trembling (G5141) and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
G5141
τρέμω
tremō
trem'-o
Strengthened from a primary word τρέω treō (to “dread”, “terrify”); to “tremble” or fear: - be afraid, trembling.
Also I never said Paul was afraid of going to a fabled hell of eternal torture, as Im sure he never even heard of such a doctrine. Im the one who was afraid of that fable, and it was one of the reasons I was caused to search out the truth.
Of course it was Jesus who stopped Paul, but it was the manner in which He stopped Paul that got my attention. Is not how God was saving Paul a "pattern" for how God will save all? Or does that part not count? This is an honest question because I always consider I may be wrong. Is the "pattern" ONLY about God showing patience? Yeah I can see how that could be. It's just hard to imagine non elect people not "trembling" like Paul did when Jesus shows up brighter then anything you can imagine.
The point is that God can use fear for an ultimately good outcome, just like He can use evil for good. I personally dont see anything wrong with fear as it is a natural emotion God created us with. It can actually be quite beneficial in some circumstances. But that's just my opinion right or wrong. Fear is fear and I dont need to know all the types to understand it. Besides, My poor confused little brain might explode if I try to understand what the fear of the Lord means. :D
I really like what Ray said here in reference to the way in which God will make sinners volunteer to repent. Enjoy.
https://bible-truths.com/lake3.html
Here’s the lesson: If Jesus Christ can bring to repentance, and convert, and save the WORLD’S WORST SINNER THAT HAS EVER LIVED in about 30 seconds, then that drunken cussing uncle of yours (the one you believe is going to hell for all eternity), is NO MATCH FOR THE CONVERTING POWER OF JESUS CHRIST! And ALL OF THE LESSER SINNERS of the world also are no match for the converting, saving power of Jesus Christ. Once the Giant of all sinners has been conquered, converting the sinning MIDGETS will be an easy task!
[/size]Has no one ever considered what would happen if God were to strike down Hitler with a BLINDING LIGHT FROM HEAVEN? Do you really think he would shake his fist toward heaven in total human defiance? Well, if you do, you think as a fool! Paul despised the Church of the Loving God. He hated it with evey fiber of his being. He went to great length and personal hardship to seek out and TORTURE the Saints of God. But when God struck him down with a blinding light from heaven, Paul "trembled"(Greek, tremo, dreadful and terrifying FEAR), and was "astonished" (Greek: thambeo, to stupefy, astound, amaze, astonish), and melted like jelly in the noonday SUN!
[/size]And some would suppose that Hitler or any LESSER sinner would do otherwise? Well, God didn’t strike down Hitler with a blinding light from heaven, but guess what? HE WILL YET DO IT! And when He does, Hitler will sob like a babbling idiot! He will violently shake and tremble in UTTER DESPAIR AND TERROR, and he will REPENT, make no mistake about it! OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE! God has ways to MAKE carnal-minded, God-defying men and women VOLUNTEER real fast!
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