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[lareli]

I would categorize myself as both emotionally isolated and antisocial. What, exactly, is wrong with that?

https://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#punkrock

Hi, I'm Esther.

I'm 13 going on 14 this Saturday. I really like rock and punk and I was wondering is it ok for me to still like them even though I'm a Christian?

Plus I don't listen to the songs about death, drugs, sex, or anything like that. As for punk, I just like the style.

[Ray Replies]

Dear Esther: 

When I was 13 and 14,  and even 15-20, I too liked things that seemed to be okay at the time. Things like girly magazines and smoking cigarettes.  The reason for this is that, "FOOLISHNESS is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it FAR FROM HIM" (Prov. 22:15).

Trust me, Esther, many many of the things that seem (maybe not necessarily good and wholesome), but at least NOT EVIL, when we are young, will seem like foolishness when we are older and wiser.  The "rod of correction" spoken of in the Proverbs can mean ANYTHING that shows you that your ways are wrong. We often refer to this rod as, "The School of Hard Knocks."  Ask your mother if she ever learned anything at this International University?

Sometimes the "lesser of two evils" seems to proper course to go, however, both the greater and the lesser evils will bite you like a poisonous snake one day.  A definition might be in order at this time, Esther:

Punk rock n. Rock 'n' roll characterized by extremely fast tempos and lyrics expressing emotional isolation and ANTISOCIAL ATTITUDES" (American Heritage College Dictionary, page 1130).

Do you wish to be an "isolationist with antisocial attitudes?"  I hope not. But be of good cheer, "THIS ALSO SHALL PASS"   (with time).

God be with you (and your parents),

Ray

[Extol]

I looked up antisocialand it's stronger than simply not wanting to hang out with people (which is how I am, and presumably how you are.)

Here are two definitions from dictionary.com:

1. Unwilling or unable to associate with others in a friendly or normal way.

2. Antagonistic , hostile, or unfriendly; menacing.

I think punk rock--at least the definition Ray cited--is more of the second.

[Dave in Tenn]

Going with Extol's first definition:

If you had asked "what is wrong with being cynical and depressed?" (as I was minutes before stumbling onto BT and wasn't minutes after) I'd answer, "It isn't all that great, thanks." in my usual understated way.     

I still have my moments which serve to remind me from where I came and as a "marker" in my life to let me know if the direction I'm going (the things I'm thinking and doing) is advancing "salvation" from those things or returning me to them.

Is it OK to be "Unwilling or unable to associate with others in a friendly or normal way"?  Maybe it is when it is and it isn't when it isn't.  I can't imagine going on and on being "unwilling or unable", but like everything else, it serves it's purpose now.  Kinda like the man born blind.
     

[Dave in Tenn]

2Pe 1:5-10  But also in this very thing, having brought in all diligence, having fully supplied in your faith virtue,

and with virtue knowledge,

and with the knowledge self-control,

and with the self-control patience,

and with the patience godliness,

and with the godliness brotherly love,

and with brotherly love, love.

For these things being in you, and abounding, they will make you not idle, not unfruitful in the full knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.  For the one in whom these things are not present is blind, being shortsighted, taking on forgetfulness of the cleansing of his sins in time past.  Therefore, brothers, rather be diligent to make sure of your calling and election; for doing these things, you will not ever fall.

[cheekie3]

largeli -

Interesting statement:

I would categorize myself as both emotionally isolated and antisocial. What, exactly, is wrong with that?

https://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#punkrock

Hi, I'm Esther.

I'm 13 going on 14 this Saturday. I really like rock and punk and I was wondering is it ok for me to still like them even though I'm a Christian?

Plus I don't listen to the songs about death, drugs, sex, or anything like that. As for punk, I just like the style.

[Ray Replies]

Dear Esther: 

When I was 13 and 14,  and even 15-20, I too liked things that seemed to be okay at the time. Things like girly magazines and smoking cigarettes.  The reason for this is that, "FOOLISHNESS is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it FAR FROM HIM" (Prov. 22:15).

Trust me, Esther, many many of the things that seem (maybe not necessarily good and wholesome), but at least NOT EVIL, when we are young, will seem like foolishness when we are older and wiser.  The "rod of correction" spoken of in the Proverbs can mean ANYTHING that shows you that your ways are wrong. We often refer to this rod as, "The School of Hard Knocks."  Ask your mother if she ever learned anything at this International University?

Sometimes the "lesser of two evils" seems to proper course to go, however, both the greater and the lesser evils will bite you like a poisonous snake one day.  A definition might be in order at this time, Esther:

Punk rock n. Rock 'n' roll characterized by extremely fast tempos and lyrics expressing emotional isolation and ANTISOCIAL ATTITUDES" (American Heritage College Dictionary, page 1130).

Do you wish to be an "isolationist with antisocial attitudes?"  I hope not. But be of good cheer, "THIS ALSO SHALL PASS"   (with time).

God be with you (and your parents),

Ray

I look at it like this:

What agreement do I have with an atheist?
I have some agreement but not all - so I limit my relationship with the atheist to those things that we have in common (like families, food, weather, etc).
I can never be totally open with an atheist as they do not accept that we live in a Created environment.

Can two walk together, lest they agree?
No.

How many Called Out Elect are there at this time?
The very few.

So, my conclusion is that it is not possible for The Elect to be at home with the world and its beliefs as they are all alien to The Elect.

In His Own Time, we will all be of a like mind - but until the endgame has been completed, we The Elect are peculiar and separated.

Warmest Regards.

George

[Porter]

No man is an island. 

[indianabob]

No man is an island; but may be sanctified like an island...

Prayer for the Disciples
Jn 17:15 I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth.…

[Porter]

That's a good point Bob. Believe it or not those verses were in my mind as I posted.

[Dave in Tenn]

Jn 17:15 I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth.…

They are not just as He was not.  In what way or ways was Jesus not of the world?  Demonstrably from Scripture?  Is the TRUTH a who or a what?  Who or what is the WORD?   

[indianabob]

John 17:17  ...thy word (logos) is truth

[lareli]

I looked up antisocialand it's stronger than simply not wanting to hang out with people (which is how I am, and presumably how you are.)

Here are two definitions from dictionary.com:

1. Unwilling or unable to associate with others in a friendly or normal way.

2. Antagonistic , hostile, or unfriendly; menacing.

I think punk rock--at least the definition Ray cited--is more of the second.

1. Definitely not unable.. I can be and prefer to be friendly when social interaction is unavoidable. I've had too much conflict and strife in my life to actively seek it out or create it in social situations if it's unnecessary. So if social situations are avoidable I lean away from them. Especially with family members.

Does anyone else feel this way.. that any conversations or interactions with people that don't involve what is discussed here, are pointless? I mean I know that there's no wasted motion in Gods plan and so nothing is pointless.. but trying to pretend I care about baseball games or the weather or the latest celebrity gossip is so painful at times.

2. Ya.. you're probably right about Rays definition. I personally think punk-rock could be relatable to Christ though in the sense that He was antagonistic to the social order.. to the point that they killed Him.

[Doug]

Hi Largeli,

I still do enjoy some conversation with others but not to the extent as I use to. Also, things that use to interest me no longer do. My plans of how I wanted to live life are completely different. I am in sales and the company has changed dramatically lately and want all this cold calling and aggressive selling. I just have lost interest, to the point I told them last week they maybe better off with someone else.

God is in control and my interest just comes down to doing His will. It is a process of dying a bit each day. It's hard to put in words but I an so thankful God has taken away the things past. God has taken away family, friends, assorted pleasures but has replaced with so much more.

Doug

[John from Kentucky]

Jesus was not an antisocial isolationist.

He attended a wedding where alcohol flowed freely due in a large part to Jesus creating several hundred gallons of fine wine.

Jesus attended dinner parties with the elite.  Also he associated with prostitutes and other people low in the social order.

Jesus was not killed because he was antagonistic to the social order.

Jesus was killed because it was the will of God.

[DEJI]

1. Definitely not unable.. I can be and prefer to be friendly when social interaction is unavoidable. I've had too much conflict and strife in my life to actively seek it out or create it in social situations if it's unnecessary. So if social situations are avoidable I lean away from them. Especially with family members.

Does anyone else feel this way.. that any conversations or interactions with people that don't involve what is discussed here, are pointless? I mean I know that there's no wasted motion in Gods plan and so nothing is pointless.. but trying to pretend I care about baseball games or the weather or the latest celebrity gossip is so painful at times.

2. Ya.. you're probably right about Rays definition. I personally think punk-rock could be relatable to Christ though in the sense that He was antagonistic to the social order.. to the point that they killed Him.

@ Largeli, I think you meant to describe yourself as asocial and not antisocial. Asocial is more descriptive of what I think you are judging from your attitude towards people. I don't consider that to be abnormal, perhaps because I am quite like that too 


I was always much of an introvert, I had and still have different tastes, likes, opinions etc from most people. Ironically(or perhaps because I am very accommodating and courteous) , people generally like to be around me and would initiate friendships with me.


Since I "stumbled" on BT, I find that I enjoy most conversations with people even less. I find that I really do not enjoy hanging out with friends that I have had for long. They simply wouldn't be interested in most things I would want to talk about now and I generally keep my mouth shut about my new beliefs.

[lareli]

Jesus was not an antisocial isolationist.

He attended a wedding where alcohol flowed freely due in a large part to Jesus creating several hundred gallons of fine wine.

Jesus attended dinner parties with the elite.  Also he associated with prostitutes and other people low in the social order.

Jesus was not killed because he was antagonistic to the social order.

Jesus was killed because it was the will of God.

Saying Jesus was killed because it was the will of God is a very simplistic way to put it. Of course Jesus was killed because it was the will of God. everything is because of God.

He was killed because it was the will of God. He was also killed because it was the will (or intention) of God that the leaders of the religious social order would hate Him and feel threatened by Him. Or do you think the religious leaders and the mob of people were operating as mindless drones with no emotion and no motive?

[John from Kentucky]

Jesus was not an antisocial isolationist.

He attended a wedding where alcohol flowed freely due in a large part to Jesus creating several hundred gallons of fine wine.

Jesus attended dinner parties with the elite.  Also he associated with prostitutes and other people low in the social order.

Jesus was not killed because he was antagonistic to the social order.

Jesus was killed because it was the will of God.

Saying Jesus was killed because it was the will of God is a very simplistic way to put it. Of course Jesus was killed because it was the will of God. everything is because of God.

He was killed because it was the will of God. He was also killed because it was the will (or intention) of God that the leaders of the religious social order would hate Him and feel threatened by Him. Or do you think the religious leaders and the mob of people were operating as mindless drones with no emotion and no motive?

I am very simplistic since I follow Jesus Who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  Very simple.

There is no free will.  Pilate, the High Priest, Judas, the Mob, even Satan did not exercise any free will in doing what they did.  They all did what they were compelled to do by forces they did not control, and which they did not understand.  Which is why they are all forgiven and will be brought to repentance and saved by the Great King and Savior and Almighty God, Jesus.

[Dave in Tenn]

Forces that include "emotion and motive".  These too were caused.

[arion]

There is no free will.  Pilate, the High Priest, Judas, the Mob, even Satan did not exercise any free will in doing what they did.  They all did what they were compelled to do by forces they did not control, and which they did not understand.  Which is why they are all forgiven and will be brought to repentance and saved by the Great King and Savior and Almighty God, Jesus.

The plain gospel in a few sentences.

[lareli]

Good stuff John.

Back to the generalizing of 'punk rock' music... isn't it true that in all walks of life and even in musical genres, there is 'good' and 'bad'?

I've often heard the Lord speak something to me through almost every genre of music. Country music for example is often songs about a common life experience many of us can relate to and appreciate. Some of it however, as my kid pointed out once, is all about "drinking alcohol and kissing!".

I like lots of punk-rock songs.. some can cause me to reflect on the ups and downs of life and can bring me to an attitude of appreciation for my life and struggles, and even forgiveness..

[lareli]

This one in particular causes me to appreciate things that God showed me through the lives of several close friends whom I know that have died from drug overdoses.. several had babies on the way at the time of their death and so the last verse in particular usually causes me to tear up, in a good way, thinking about their lives and deaths and how God works everything for a good and holy purpose..

When the Angels Sing by Social Distortion

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UdZwS-SIXpE