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John 8:12-58 - How Jesus answered His accusers
Dave in Tenn:
For the record, I'm not suggesting that Father and Son are one-and-the-same. I don't know what the alternative to that is, so how could I? I'm saying only that Father and Son are ONE. I think that statement is true, scriptural, and also what Ray taught. Feel free to figure out the rest in any way that suits you.
My "journey" in this has not been to explain the "enigma of God", but to understand it. I just can't understand it theologically. I came into it from Scripture, and as far as I know so far, it doesn't contradict scripture (spiritually discerned). It does do a number on certain 'theological assumptions', but that usually makes me happy. ;D
At the same time, it doesn't "contradict" what Ray taught as far as I know. Why "as far as I know"? Because Ray himself was grappling with these things toward the end. That video is documented evidence of that. And what Ray taught earlier on is still true. That Father and Son are One in Spirit is still true. That the word "God" (Theos) is a "title" and not a name is still true. The One who holds the title has a name. That the God-head is "family" is still true, else why inspire the words Father, Son and Children at all?
It was Ray who taught me the basics of what "spirit" and "soul" meant, and who taught me when you body dies, soul goes to "the unseen" where there is no knowledge of anything.
Ecc 12:7 And the soil (body) returns to the earth just as it was, And the spirit, it returns to the One, Elohim, Who gave it."
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And in conclusion ;D:
Jesus Christ as a Man had two parents. Let's not forget that either. Might be important.
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: octoberose on October 18, 2017, 04:13:31 AM ---As long as I've been in this Forum ( I think I'm at 8 years to the day) the question of who Jesus Christ truly is has been a hallmark of Faith. How many times have I read if you don't understand that Jesus died, was dead and buried not in heaven or hanging out with Noah, but Dead- that his body did not die for us but He died for us- then you really don't know who you claim to worship? I'm not sure I understand why the debate . There are many times in scripture where the Word condescends to us because we just don't get it and He cannot yet explain it to us. For instance, God never changes His mind but there are scriptures that lead us to believe that. This is what I know. Jesus asked Peter who He was and Peter answered . We all have to answer that question and it is important for us to get this right.
Matthew 13- He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
As for me, there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Son and he represents his Father perfectly.
--- End quote ---
"Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Amen.
“Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah (and Octoberose)! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. Amen.
Let's also not forget the very most important time the Word condescended to us. He humbled Himself and became a man, and was obedient--even to death--and not just any death, but the death on a cross.
He rose from the dead, too. First.
I know Who I worship, and I know His Father through Him.
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on October 18, 2017, 01:45:59 PM ---For the record, I'm not suggesting that Father and Son are one-and-the-same. I don't know what the alternative to that is, so how could I? I'm saying only that Father and Son are ONE. I think that statement is true, scriptural, and also what Ray taught. Feel free to figure out the rest in any way that suits you.
--- End quote ---
Then we are not divided Dave. I've always said God and His Son are one because that's what we are told.
John 17:11 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Musterseed:
What a lively debate. I believe the answers are in the Trinity Papers of Rays teaching. Peace and Love to all.
Dave in Tenn:
No, we're not divided, Dennis. How deep the "One-ness" is and in what form these things take, and how we think of these things in our own thoughts shouldn't be matters of contention, but of sharing. It's the Spirit who reveals things. Good fruit--some thirty, some sixty, some a-hundred-fold.
It's been a very valuable thread for me. I think Joel's post about "getting in trouble" when we don't use Scriptural terms is very important. I intend to endeavor to follow that when attempting to "quote Scripture" (the bible says), and we owe it to each other to press when someone doesn't.
Now, I need to get back to up-dating my resume' and resuming my job-search (though I'd rather have my wisdom teeth extracted).
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