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Which Scriptures have been the hardest for us to understand
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: octoberose on November 01, 2017, 01:22:21 AM ---I don't know of anyone who teaches what Ray does in this matter. That is said with amazement and trying to understand it- not criticism. I still don't understand how he came to it. I can read about John standing at the sea, hearing a voice behind him. 666 is the number of mankind, not a man. And the beast is me. I could have read those verses my whole life and not come to the understanding Ray did. I hope I would have eventually noticed a few things such as we will have great tribulation not The Great Tribulation .
From the LOF-
"Let no man [ 'let not any person,' RSV, 'Let no ONE...'] deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY first, and that man of sin [Gk: the lawless one] be revealed, the son of perdition [Gk: the one destined for destruction] . Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God [a god] , or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God"
Are we to come to the understanding that the verse above is how Everyone eventually will come to know Christ and come to bow before Him when they fall away from worshipping themselves? If so, that makes some kind of sense to me.
--- End quote ---
Ray received his understanding from the Spirit of God as do the very few, the little flock who God wants to understand in this age.
God is not saving the Many at this time, but in the next age, when the Great King returns.
It is why Jesus taught in parables. To keep the Many from understanding the Truth. Their time has not yet come.
Those of us meant to understand, get it when we stand on the sand, and look back and see the Beast come out of the sea, and know we are the Beast because we have experienced this Truth in our lives. Not reading it out of a book, but living it.
Dave in Tenn:
2Th 2:11 And therefore God will be sending them an operation of deception, for them to believe the falsehood,
2Th 2:12 that all may be judged who do not believe the truth, but delight in injustice."
The two main teachings of Ray at B-T are the salvation of all (with the inherent injustice of eternal destruction), and the sovereignty of God (with the fallacy of free-will). BOTH of those are in that passage.
--- Quote from: octoberose on November 01, 2017, 01:22:21 AM ---
Are we to come to the understanding that the verse above is how Everyone eventually will come to know Christ and come to bow before Him when they fall away from worshipping themselves? If so, that makes some kind of sense to me.
--- End quote ---
OURSELVES is just one of the things mankind will stop worshiping.
Peter (and all the other disciples) forsook the Lord, Who they loved and Who loved them. The prodigal son left the love of his father.
Paul wrote earlier:
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
That's what's hard for me to understand. We can't preach the meat of the Gospel to those who think they are doing God a favor, and have Jesus as their personal pocket savior. Ray said the carnal church has not yet experienced this falling away. It's not that they haven't fallen, it's just that they don't know they've fallen. Can you relate? You start well perhaps, as a "baby christian", but before you know it you're corrupted. And whether or not you end up in the pig-pen of the world, you're in the pig-pen of the worldly church, eating what you've been feeding. Naked, without knowing you're naked. Before long, you "do not believe the truth, but delight in injustice"--maybe even the injustice of eternal conscious torment.
Jesus came to save those who are LOST. Some people seem to have only been religiously "lost" before they were religiously "saved". They've got a hard, hard lesson to learn. They won't learn it until they have left their first love and then repent--because you can't repent of something you haven't done. That was Peter (and the others), Paul, the lost sheep, the prodigal son, Ray... First, leave--later, Pentecost, with a death and resurrection in-between.
So for my part, what gospel I can "preach" is to those who HAVE experienced the "falling away". Anything I can tell a carnal christian about it would just be turned into a religious exercise. And it's not a "good thing"...it's an evil that He intends for good. It is as John said...this has to be lived, and once lived, then we can understand (with a little help, like Paul did for the Thessalonians). The GOOD NEWS isn't "if you're a good christian, and do the right things, you can go to heaven".
Does that make sense?
But, yes, this is what has to happen before the "Day of the Lord" happens to you, when the Lord Jesus RETURNS to YOU in Spirit. I have to believe it's the same for every "christian", each in their own order at the consummation. The rest of the world as a whole is not the "many called". It will be better for them in Judgement. But there is no "bad news" in the end. ;D
lareli:
Dave just to clarify on your last few sentences..
It will be better for them in judgement.. you’re referring to those who were never called, correct?
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: largeli on November 01, 2017, 10:29:24 AM ---Dave just to clarify on your last few sentences..
It will be better for them in judgement.. you’re referring to those who were never called, correct?
--- End quote ---
Yes.
lareli:
The GOOD NEWS isn't "if you're a good christian, and do the right things, you can go to heaven".
Was that the good news according to your church Dave?
We have had different “church” backgrounds and experiences. The Good News as it was presented in virtually every church I’ve been to is that “you don’t have to be good, and you don’t have to do the right things.. just believe in Jesus and accept His forgiveness and you can go to heaven.” People accept this “good news” and continue to live their lives as if they will never be judged. We were taught that our belief in Jesus meant we will bypass the judgment.
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