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Author Topic: New Heavens and New Earth  (Read 3005 times)

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Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2018, 08:44:47 PM »

Wanda, wouldn't that also apply to our fiery trials?

For sure. Fiery trials now, or judgement at the White Throne later.
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
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Prune Soleiado

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2018, 10:09:40 AM »

In two Scriptures, in Matthew and Mark, Jesus tells us that unless those end days were shortened, then no flesh would be saved alive.  But for sake of His Elect, those days will be shortened.

So there will be life, not total destruction.  God is the God of the living, not the dead, for all will live unto Him and all will be saved.

John, I read this verse and thought it makes sense with what you said:

Job 38:8-11: « 8 Who shut up the sea behind doors
    when it burst forth from the womb,
9 when I made the clouds its garment
    and wrapped it in thick darkness,
10 when I fixed limits for it
    and set its doors and bars in place,
11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
    here is where your proud waves halt’? »
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John from Kentucky

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2018, 02:24:59 PM »

In two Scriptures, in Matthew and Mark, Jesus tells us that unless those end days were shortened, then no flesh would be saved alive.  But for sake of His Elect, those days will be shortened.

So there will be life, not total destruction.  God is the God of the living, not the dead, for all will live unto Him and all will be saved.

John, I read this verse and thought it makes sense with what you said:

Job 38:8-11: « 8 Who shut up the sea behind doors
    when it burst forth from the womb,
9 when I made the clouds its garment
    and wrapped it in thick darkness,
10 when I fixed limits for it
    and set its doors and bars in place,
11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
    here is where your proud waves halt’? »

The Book of Job is one of my favorites.  It teaches many fundamental truths about God.

It may well be the oldest book in the bible based upon the age of the Hebrew letters and words.
It is a Hebrew poem.

At the first we learn about the relation between God and evil.  The source of evil in a world created by a perfect God.

Later we learn about the resurrection of the dead when God speaks of this to Job.

And the beautiful language when God compares Himself and what He has done to what Job is.  Much instruction.

A delightful book of scripture.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2018, 03:21:50 PM »

Job's children die and I have never thought of it as beautiful. But I see your point John.
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Musterseed

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2018, 06:44:28 PM »

The book of Job contains more rare words than any other book in the Bible. Just a little
tidbit from.

Readers Digest
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ML

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2018, 06:50:32 PM »

What would readers digest know about Scripture? 🙃
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14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Prune Soleiado

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2018, 07:22:52 PM »

I don’t know if they would all support the digestion of the Word of God since « It will turn your stomach sour » (Revelation 10:9) 😅
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Musterseed

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2018, 01:36:24 PM »

ML , the article I read was about the complexity of  the language. Not understanding it.
It was from 1994. I used to like reading RD before I knew about this Babylonian System of
corruption and the evil it spews.

John’s post inspired me to read Job last night for the first time. I will have to read it a few more
times or a hundred more times .

I know this.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God and in His hands is where I want to be.

Job 41 : 11
“Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under Heaven belongs to me”.

Please help me understand a little.
Job 38:2
The Lord Speaks
Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge ?

It seems to me that Job was a righteous man in his own mind and did not know he was a beast.
Just like all mankind.
He questions God.
Job 7:17
What is mankind that you make so much of them, that you give them so much attention 18
that you examine them every morning and test them every moment?

Job seems to ask questions that I Used to want to ask Him myself but  dare not because.
38:2 Who is this that obscures my plans words without knowledge?

And Who are you O man? God let’s me know who’s in charge and compels me to obey, He chastens.
When Our God speaks , I sit up straight and listen. I know what He is capable of, and I also know
He rescues. Thank God for His mercy and love.

I do not have much experience in reading scripture but I am thankful for the little I do have at this time. I have a long way to go but the journey is awesome and sometimes I feel like Job and just want to die and get it over with, but I don’t want to miss anything while I’m alive. Good or bad.

Question? Does Job represent the many? This is a challenging book. Any help would be appreciated. I love  the part, When the Lord Speaks, my heart melts.

In Christ , Pamela







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Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2018, 02:38:22 PM »

Satan suggested to God that the only reason Job served Him was because God blessed him. He said that Job would curse God if God took away His blessings. God gave Satan permission to test Job. He only placed one restriction on Satan. He was not allowed to harm Job himself (Job 1:9-12).

Pamela, this is what God has said about the kind of manJob was.

Job 2:

3 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shun evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

The Lord allowed Satan to do what he would with Job except take his life.
6 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

And so the attack begins.

7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

8 And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.

9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.

Job's response here is one of pure reverence and faith to the Lord.

10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

There were many more terrible things that happened to Job, and as you continue to read the book, you'll see why so many of us love this book so much.

Happy reading


« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 03:11:12 PM by Wanda »
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John from Kentucky

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2018, 02:39:14 PM »

The Book of Job answers the question of, why do bad things happen to good people?

Job was so good, even Satan could not find anything wrong with him.

God found something wrong.

Page after page, God compares Himself, God, to Job.

Job finally understood and got it and repented in dust and ashes.

God never did specifically answer Job's question as to what he did to deserve the bad things that happened to him.

Pamela, trust no man.  Only Jesus is our Teacher.  Only His Spirit will guide you to the truth if you come before Him with a clean and open heart and ask Him for understanding.
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Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2018, 03:08:56 PM »

Quote
Job was so good, even Satan could not find anything wrong with him.

God found something wrong.

Page after page, God compares Himself, God, to Job.

Job finally understood and got it and repented in dust and ashes.

Thank you John, that is the most profound message in the book of Job.
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
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Musterseed

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2018, 05:41:14 PM »

Thankyou Wanda for the scriptures , you are very helpful , always.

John,
Thank you also, I want to to read it again now , more slowly, paying attention to all the words.
I needed to hear that today John” trust no man,only Jesus is our teacher” .
Lately I’ve been a target . Strange things happening to me.
Thank you very much for your wise advise.

I love my BT family, thank God for all of you and God Bless You.❤️
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ML

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2018, 07:27:45 PM »

On Job, wanted to bring up something.

For example, in 2:10, it says he did not sin with his lips. Does it say he did not sin? No, it says he did not sin with his lips.

Significant?
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14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Prune Soleiado

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2018, 08:37:45 PM »

Satan IS God’s creature, if he couldn’t find any sin about Job it makes sense since Human thoughts are demonic, and we know men consider themselves not being that evil.

Two scriptures are interesting in showing that Satan is a creation of God and that he’s not in control but God is:
1 Chronicles 21:1:  « Satan rose up against Israel and INCITED David to take a census of Israel. »
2 Samuel 24:1: « Again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he INCITED David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah. »

Then if God considers Job have something evil in his heart to be cleansed: God finds it for sure!
And we can be sure, as human as we are, there’s something always to be cleansed in our hearts until we are in Jesus’ image!

Jeremiah 17:9: « The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure.Who can understand it? »

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Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2018, 11:40:15 PM »

In Job 29 Job is boasting of many of his good works.

12 Because I delivered the poor that cried, and the fatherless, and him that had none to help him.

13 The blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me: and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.

14 I put on righteousness, and it clothed me: my judgment was as a robe and a diadem.

15 I was eyes to the blind, and feet was I to the lame.

16 I was a father to the poor: and the cause which I knew not I searched out.

Matthew 6:2

"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.

Proverbs 27:2

Let another praise you, and not your own mouth; A stranger, and not your own lips.

In Job ch. 31 Job is pleading his case before his friends who had turned on him. He's laying before them the many things he can not be judged guilty against God or man for.

And so it is in Job 32:1 The three men stopped answeing Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.

Self-righteous people tend to justify themselves by blaming others, and it is a very difficult sin to get people to see and condemn in themselves.

In the New Testament, Jesus and the apostle Paul came down particularly hard on those who attempted to live in self-righteousness.

Romans 3:10
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.


« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 11:49:40 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
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Musterseed

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2018, 12:16:36 AM »

Matt.6:2
So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites
do in the synagogues and in the streets so they be honoured by men. Truly I say to you,
they have their reward.

Didn’t Ray warn us that this was something the Pharisees did and would keep you out of the Kingdom of God. Doing good works to be see by men. Didn’t
People honour  Job and stand for him when he entered the town?

Who do the three friends represent in Job 32:1. The three men stopped answering Job, because he
was righteous in his own eyes.
How would they know he was righteous in his own eyes unless they were not. Are they the Elect?

I’m confused 🤷‍♀️ 🤔
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Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2018, 04:38:43 AM »

Quote
Matt.6:2
So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites
do in the synagogues and in the streets so they be honoured by men. Truly I say to you,
they have their reward.

Didn’t Ray warn us that this was something the Pharisees did and would keep you out of the Kingdom of God. Doing good works to be see by men.

Is this not a warning to turn away from this sinful practice and repent?

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Quote
Didn’t
People honour  Job and stand for him when he entered the town?

Yes they did,  and no one could have given him more importance than Job gave himself. These are just a few scriptures from Job 29, but if you read the whole chapter you'll get a  clearer sense of it.

This is Job speaking of his high position of importance among the people.

They waited for me as for showers
    and drank in my words as the spring rain.
24 When I smiled at them, they scarcely believed it;
    the light of my face was precious to them.

If I were to say something so outrageous and egotistical, you guys here on this forum would have a thing or two to say about it,  don't you think?

Quote
Who do the three friends represent in Job 32:1
.

Job’s three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar,

In Job 2:11–13. they came to him when he was suffering. And they empathized with him: “they began to weep aloud, and they tore their robes and sprinkled dust on their heads” (verse 12).  Verse 13 states they were with him for seven days before they offered their advice.

While his friends were correct that sin had to be at the root of Job's problem, they portrayed God wrongly, by believing he was punishing Job for not doing enough good,.  On the other hand,  by Job justifying himself, he was condemning God as being unjust.

And with righteous indignation Job stood firm, insisting on his own innocence, not even allowing that he could be guilty of any sin or sins, which could be the cause of his afflictions; and the 3 men gave up because it had become pointless to reason with Job. None of the counsel helped because Job was righteous in his own eyes (Job 32:1).

Even before God, Job's attitude was one of self-righgeousness.

Job 7:20
If I have sinned, what have I done to you, you who see everything we do? Why have you made me your target? Have I become a burden to you?

 
Quote
The three men stopped answering Job, because he
was righteous in his own eyes.
How would they know he was righteous in his own eyes unless they were not. Are they the Elect?

Even though I'm striving to be, I am not  a righteous person, but if you stood before me and  proclaimed  you were blameless,  and sinless before God, I would consider you to have a self-rightgeous attitude, and I'd be right.

Ecclesiastes 7:20

Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

Even though Job was “perfect and upright” in how he observed the strict letter of God’s law, he was weak in the spirit of the law. He was full of vanity and pride.

And as Michelle so rightly pointed out...

"Then if God considers Job have something evil in his heart to be cleansed: God finds it for sure!
And we can be sure, as human as we are, there’s something always to be cleansed in our hearts until we are in Jesus’ image!"

Because of this, God allowed him to endure a horrendous period of trial and test so he could clearly see himself in relation to God.

Some lessons are hard learned, as many of us can attest to.

Bad things do happen to good people that are not yet sinless.

But in the end Job repented,  and God was rightly Glorified ☺


« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 07:30:30 AM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
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indianabob

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #57 on: August 26, 2018, 08:48:09 AM »

Hi Wanda,

What you just wrote was very helpful to me.
Thanks for sharing those thoughts and expanding my understanding of my own limitations.
As well as we may do in this life there will still be space for correction when we meet our Lord.
Indiana Bob
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Heidi

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2018, 10:40:29 PM »

Wanda, I also want to say thank you, your post helped me too.  It hurts to admit to being self-righteous as I am also guilty like Job in certain thoughts and behaviors.  I thank God that He is burning it out of my life!
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Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2018, 07:58:02 PM »

Pamela, Heidi and Bob,  It's always my pleasure to add to discussions when I can.  I've certainly been greatly enriched by many of your comments, it's the reason our great Lord, continues to bless and protect our little sanctuary, in this raging sea of life.
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12
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