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Author Topic: New Heavens and New Earth  (Read 1994 times)

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Rick Longva

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New Heavens and New Earth
« on: August 18, 2018, 11:29:05 PM »

Did Ray believe that the Earth and the heavens are going to be destroyed (obliterated), and a new Earth and Heavens will be created. I can't seem to find anywhere where this is written about. Thanks
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Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2018, 06:14:44 PM »

Hi Rick, I could find nothing where Ray spicifically taught on this subject, maybe in an email, but I didn't have time to search through the many of those.

If you are seeing this somewhere in scripture, and  are understanding it to be literal, thats because  spiritual principles are being laid out in physical terms, as so much of scripture is. If Ray had taught on this subject, I feel confident he would have taught this from a spiritual perspective, because that would be the only scriptural truth.

Ray taught plenty  on the spiritual things of God. In fact he said, " First the physical then the spiritual". In his paper  Foundation Truths. Maybe this will shed some light on this for you.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,6452.0.html

Jesus said, “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you” (John 14:26).

“But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth.” (John 16:13)

« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 08:19:32 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
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Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2018, 06:26:19 PM »

This is a link to the audio on Foundation Truth.

https://bible-truths.com/audio/Bible%20Study%2002-03-08.mp3
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Rick Longva

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2018, 07:43:50 PM »

I don't believe it will be obliterated and a new Earth and heavens created. I was just wondering if Ray, or anyone here had any thoughts about that. Thanks for the reply.
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Horan

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2018, 11:55:31 PM »

I don't believe it will be obliterated and a new Earth and heavens created. I was just wondering if Ray, or anyone here had any thoughts about that. Thanks for the reply.

Hi Rick. It appears to me that this is a problematic issue with regard to those who believe in universal reconciliation. I personally believe that all life on earth will be destroyed at the end of this, current age. Jesus said that it will be just as in the days of Noah, and Peter makes it quite clear that destruction by fire will ensue in this coming judgement. I understand that many things need to be understood in spiritual terms rather than literal but, while I firmly believe that all will ultimately be happily reconciled to God, I read this end time event as destruction by some form of literal fire.
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indianabob

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 12:31:55 AM »

Hi Mark,
Regarding our future here on the planet earth.

A plausible story that I have believed for quite a while is as follows.

Jesus the Christ returns at the appointed time and takes control of world government.
Whomever is left alive on the earth continues living their life span as the earth is renewed.
A human government may exist but Satan will be put away and not be able to influence mankind.
After an age of perhaps 1000 years with Christ ruling in peace and the results of that rule having
provided a large population to grow and prosper, Satan will be loosed once more to test the whole world and from then the story is not clear.
In any case Christ will eventually put down all sin and even death and then will turn the whole system over to his father and father God will make His home with us here on a NEW earth. So If God is going to be here and we are all going to be immortal (spiritual) then the future earth can be quite a bit different than it is today. e.g. no more volcanoes or storm etc. and we won't ever die so there needs to be lots of fruitful challenges and opportunities that God will provide.
Let your imagination explore that scenario... :)

= = =

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
1Co 15:24  Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 
1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 



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Dave in Tenn

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 01:35:48 AM »

Imagination may or may not be a peacable exercise, but remember what Paul wrote:. Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the mind of man what glories await...
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2018, 03:09:01 PM »

I don't believe it will be obliterated and a new Earth and heavens created. I was just wondering if Ray, or anyone here had any thoughts about that. Thanks for the reply.

Hi Rick. It appears to me that this is a problematic issue with regard to those who believe in universal reconciliation. I personally believe that all life on earth will be destroyed at the end of this, current age. Jesus said that it will be just as in the days of Noah, and Peter makes it quite clear that destruction by fire will ensue in this coming judgement. I understand that many things need to be understood in spiritual terms rather than literal but, while I firmly believe that all will ultimately be happily reconciled to God, I read this end time event as destruction by some form of literal fire.
Silly me,   thinking  when I found Universal Reconciliation I was free of that wrathful God of fire  and destruction.  I should have known it was to good to be true. ;)

1 Corinthians 2

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of theLord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 03:17:54 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Prune Soleiado

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2018, 04:09:51 PM »

Those litteral Earth and Heavens are already sooo beautiful and perfect... I wish it remains « eternally »... What if these new Earth and new Heavens were the same we know right now, but with a paramount change: a change in humanity’s heart caused by God’s salvation? What if men and women deeply transformed by God’s Love and Glory start to take care of this earth? From my point of view: ever since God entered my life, I see my environment differently, even an ant I don’t want to kill from now on, for I see God’s work through it.. Not an ecological act, rather a way to glorify Our Father in Heaven by paying respect to the nature He created through Our Lord Jesus Christ. What a great world it would be, even if litteral.. No more economic profits, no more fights over resources.. Sharing, giving, enjoying it all together without any desire to earn anything but to glorify God, thanks to these new Heavens God would place into a new humanity’s heart.. Imagination, uhh?.. 😉
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Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2018, 04:31:21 PM »

Thank you Michele and Amen to all you said☺

Thank you Lord for all your magnificent ways and perfect wisdom.
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My Statutes, and ye shall keep My Judgments, and do them... Without Me ye can do nothing"
(Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 15:5).
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2018, 05:47:21 PM »

Genesis 8

19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.


This is God’s response after the Flood. I see it as  the expression of his mercy, that even though there will still be evil in the world and in the hearts of people in the future, he promises he will not curse the entire earth, nor destroy every creature in it again.  I can't  believe this iis a  comparison between methods of destruction. What kind of promise of mercy sounds like this: “I will never flood the earth again, but fire, yes, I will burn you up instead because of my great mercy for you!”?

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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

ML

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2018, 06:15:14 PM »

Was thinking, even if there was no literal new universe, what if there were universal renovations and changes to things?

Also, was shown this before, at least in terms of elements. Maybe literal elements too:

Galatians 4
9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

2 Peter 3
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
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John 1
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Prune Soleiado

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2018, 06:51:05 PM »

Amen Wanda! What a great insight about Noah and the flood 👌
ML, I agree with you: great renovations, huge cleansing, letting go of the old and bringing out the new by changing habits and ways of treating the world around  👏

God Our Father, I pray it’s in Your Perfect Plan to enlighten us about these new Earth and Heavens, may it be the time for your children to learn more about it, for Your Glory in Christ only  🙏
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Prune Soleiado

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2018, 07:20:35 PM »

« Therefore if any man be IN Christ, he is a new creature [creation]: old things are passed away; behold ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW" (II Cor. 5:17)
Parentheses and capital letters by L. Ray Smith , in Lake Of Fire Part XI.
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Prune Soleiado

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2018, 07:51:44 PM »

I fell on this:
« Luk 11:24  When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

Luk 11:25  And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished

I see something like this: when Christ comes in us, then He starts to clean everything soiled inside our hearts, and of course it reverberates on our deeds, one of these being the simplest and obvious one: we clean our houses, we make things better and « garnish » our environment.
What if... we put it on the scale of humanity, the earth, the entire world 🤔 ?
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Horan

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2018, 10:22:34 PM »

I don't believe it will be obliterated and a new Earth and heavens created. I was just wondering if Ray, or anyone here had any thoughts about that. Thanks for the reply.

Hi Rick. It appears to me that this is a problematic issue with regard to those who believe in universal reconciliation. I personally believe that all life on earth will be destroyed at the end of this, current age. Jesus said that it will be just as in the days of Noah, and Peter makes it quite clear that destruction by fire will ensue in this coming judgement. I understand that many things need to be understood in spiritual terms rather than literal but, while I firmly believe that all will ultimately be happily reconciled to God, I read this end time event as destruction by some form of literal fire.
Silly me,   thinking  when I found Universal Reconciliation I was free of that wrathful God of fire  and destruction.  I should have known it was to good to be true. ;)

1 Corinthians 2

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of theLord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

I see no good reason whatsoever to dismiss the plausibility of God's wrath being expressed in literal destruction. Just examine the world we live in. Examine the history of the past 2,000 years. Examine the 20th Century. Aren't the examples too numerous to count of God's judgement being expressed in horrific, literal terms?  What would actually be unusual about it? And I think the scriptural evidence easily supports this expectation. And that's all I intend to say about it. I've corresponded with Rick before, and I was responding to his query, even though it was mainly directed toward understanding what Ray may have said or written on this subject.
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Prune Soleiado

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2018, 11:00:34 PM »

Couldn’t find it, but Ray taught us that men create their own heavens (beliefs, idols of heart), those same heavens from which the dragon falls down in Revelation 12. It is also the moment when believers abandon their first Love, Christ. The Earth represents the called ones (who turn themselves towards churches build with the hands of men).
The new covenant is no more the ancient covenant: Hebrew 8:13: « By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. »
New wine into new wineskin, new sepulcre in which Jesus is placed after the crucifixion, new Jerusalem..
So, new Heavens and Earth, wouldn’t it be the same after all: a totally new way for people to believe, at least Faith for the True God, the One and Only God throught Jesus Christ?
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John from Kentucky

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2018, 11:46:32 PM »

Sorry for you gloom and doomers, but it does help to have some understanding of the Scriptures.

In two Scriptures, in Matthew and Mark, Jesus tells us that unless those end days were shortened, then no flesh would be saved alive.  But for sake of His Elect, those days will be shortened.

So there will be life, not total destruction.  God is the God of the living, not the dead, for all will live unto Him and all will be saved.
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Wanda

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2018, 12:17:48 AM »

Couldn’t find it, but Ray taught us that men create their own heavens (beliefs, idols of heart), those same heavens from which the dragon falls down in Revelation 12. It is also the moment when believers abandon their first Love, Christ. The Earth represents the called ones (who turn themselves towards churches build with the hands of men).
The new covenant is no more the ancient covenant: Hebrew 8:13: « By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. »
New wine into new wineskin, new sepulcre in which Jesus is placed after the crucifixion, new Jerusalem..
So, new Heavens and Earth, wouldn’t it be the same after all: a totally new way for people to believe, at least Faith for the True God, the One and Only God throught Jesus Christ?

Hi Michelle, this is what I see.

Heb. 8:11

11 And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying, “Know the Lord,” for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest of them.

This shows that full knowledge of God will be in everyone, and it also implies that no one will have to command anyone to know Him or His will. Commands are a function of the Old Covenant, and when the New Covenant is universally implemented, no commands are necessary in the sense that we understand them today.

Cor. 5:17,

17 Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

When everyone is truly “a new creature,” then John’s broader vision of the future is fulfilled. Just as our heaven and our earth is renewed through Christ on an individual level (as our old man is put to death and we walk out the life of the New Creation Man), so also does John present this as a universal promise.

John then links this to the marriage theme on its highest level—the marriage of heaven and earth. This fulfills Jesus’ prayer in Matt. 6:10,

10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.



« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 01:32:11 AM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Prune Soleiado

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Re: New Heavens and New Earth
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2018, 12:21:14 AM »

Sorry for you gloom and doomers, but it does help to have some understanding of the Scriptures.

In two Scriptures, in Matthew and Mark, Jesus tells us that unless those end days were shortened, then no flesh would be saved alive.  But for sake of His Elect, those days will be shortened.

So there will be life, not total destruction.  God is the God of the living, not the dead, for all will live unto Him and all will be saved.
Aaaaand here is the enlightenment... 😅
Safe and clear, yep 👍
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