Persecution

[Doug]

Living in the United States with our laws and protections from persecution it is rare. Yes, there have been things said to me in the past that were not kind but certainly not what I would consider persecution.

In Acts 10:32 talks of being oppressed by Satan. To me oppression and persecution are the same. My question is can our persecution come from Satan either thru physical, mental or spiritual means? I have never thought of persecution coming from Satan but this seems to be very logical. Seems to me Job was persecuted by Satan. I do not think Ray ever spoke of this but I forget more than I can remember.

Doug

[Dave in Tenn]

I don't have esword with me at the moment, but there is scripture in The Revelation about Satan accusing the brethren day and night.  I don't mean to cast aside or minimize other forms of persecution, but day and night at least three times a week, he (through his ministers) accused this brethren with a "gospel" that was not only destructive, but impossible.  And I am certainly not alone dealing with this.

[Wanda]

Thanks for this post Doug, I'm sure many are confused about being persecuted, especially those of us who live where laws are in place to protect our religious freedom.

I think this is what Dave was referencing.

Revelation 12:9-11 (KJV)

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

[Wanda]

Here's one more, sounds very accusing to me.

Job 2

4 And Satan answered the Lord, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.

5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

[Joel]

Persecution? Here's food for thought, and The New Living Translation is pretty clear. (husband and wife)

1st Corinthians 7:5 Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again SO THAT SATAN WON'T BE ABLE TO TEMPT YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR LACK OF SELF CONTROL.


Joel

[Doug]

Thanks everyone for your responses. It has actually been very helpful in my understanding.

Doug

[ralph]

Believe me when I tell you that persecution is alive and well.  One doesn't have to be stoned or thrown in prison to experience persecution.  I have experienced much persecution in my life mostly from friends and family members, but also from strangers.  I say this not to boast as if I am something special, but to witness to the fact that it exists.  All you need to do is comment on any video that is preaching about the existence of Hell.  Leave a truthful comment and they will attack and condemn you for it.  The closer you are with Christ, the more it will show in your every day life and people will begin to despise you for it.

[Heidi]

Email from Ray dating 2007:

Hello Ray:

       Thank-you for the quick reply on my question.
        I would like to ask you another question on the same subject.

         If we as Truth believers , (and I consider myself to be blessed in the true knowledge of Gods Holy Scriptures-- thanks to you and my Lord&Savior, Jesus Christ) are not persecuted according to what scripture teaches , then, are you saying that we are not true followers of Christ?

         Maybe I' am a little confused on what the word  persecution means in a scriptural sense. I dearly love God and His Holy Word and would not have it any other way,  but,  people that are close to me and know how I feel about my beliefs do not persecute me for the knowledge that I have obtained concerning the truths of God.

         Could you please elaborate a little more on this subject Ray?

Thank-You
Your brother in Christ,
Mark


Dear Mark:
I could, but I really don't have the time, and this is a no-brainer. The Scriptures tell us that:

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Look up the word "persecution" in any dictionary and then ask yourself if that definition is happening to you?  If not, then you may not be"living godly in Christ Jesus."  I knew a pastor/teacher who stated before his death (in his late seventies), how thankful he was that we live at a time where there is "NO RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION," and that he had never been persecuted for obeying God.  Oh really?  Everyone I have ever known who "lived godly in Christ Jesus" SUFFERED PERSECUTION.  And I do believe that I can personally speak from experience in this matter myself.  Maybe your time just hasn't come yet, or maybe your obedience and conversion is not showing. When it SHOWS, people will persecute you.

God be with you,

[ralph]

Hello Heidi.   Thanks for sharing Ray's email and for witnessing to the truth!  God Bless.

[Nelson Boils]

Hi,

Hello Brother Ray:

       In your Lake of Fire series, (#3), you state that---

I can tell you on the authority of Jesus Christ, God's Word, and the Apostle Paul, that unless you are SUFFERING real PERSECUTION, you are NOT a follower of Jesus Christ nor are you living godly in Christ Jesus!

       My question to you is-?

       Does the affliction of persecution that the Scriptures speak of only come from the outwardly conduit of worldly man, or can said persecution be also from with-in ourselves, ie;  what we all have to go through mentally in order to do our Fathers Will.  I guess, if you will, a type of God inflicted, mental adjustment or better yet, a spiritual awakening to do the will of God. 
        Does persecution HAVE to be ONLY from the outside as opposed from within?

                                       Thank-you Ray
                                        God Bless YOU...

                                                                       Best Regards;

                                                               Mark

Dear Mark:
No, as used in the Scriptures, persecution always comes from without from others,
not from within. Here is just one of many such examples:  "If THEY have persecuted Me, THEY will also persecute you..."  (John 15:20).
God be with you,
Ray

[Musterseed]

From E-mail—- Critique of L Ray Smith

Dear William
In anticipation of such unwarranted and hypocritical criticisms such as yours, God
put it in my mind to cover such mean spirited nonsense IN ADVANCE and here it is
right from YOU FOOLS , YOU HYPOCRITES, YOU SNAKES.

If Jesus were to come to America today and preach His gospel message, little would
have changed except for one prophesied difference. Everything has gotten even worse
than it was 2000 years ago.

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse ,deceiving and being deceived.(2Tim.3:13)

Then began He ( Jesus) to UPBRAID (Greek Oneidizo) the cities wherein most of His mighty
works were done, because they repented not. ( Matt 11:20)

Blessed are ye when men shall REVILE ( Greek Oneidizo) you, and persecute you, and say all
manner of evil against you FALSELY for my sake. ( Matt.5:11)

Quote from Ray, last paragraph of the email.

" I understand human nature better than any of my critics will even know,
  and therefore in anticipation of such tactics against me, I warn my readers
  that such attacks will come. They did the same with Jesus.They tried to turn His own
  words back on Him to insinuate that He was a blasphemer. God knows that I don't
blaspheme even if you don't. I KNOW what is in my heart; are you sure you know what
is in yours?

All caps are Rays

Please read whole e-mail.
In Christ, Pamela

[Wanda]

My experience with being persecuted was far worse being one of Jehovah's witnesses, going door to door witnessing  to others, as well as trying to save family and friends from a certain death at Armageddon, as I believed. If not, my own life was in jeopardy.

Upon learning the truth I was free from those lies, as well as bearing the heavy burden of saving anyone. My family that remains,  are so happy I no longer try to save them they could care less what I believe. I live a very isolated life at this point in time so there really is no one to be persecuted by. I suppose if it was God's will I share his truths with others that would change. I don't participate or even comment on social sites either, but I have on occasion stood firm for not agreeing with something I know would be in opposition to God's will for me, but even that didn't result in anything as serious as the persicussion  I received being one of JW'S.  Maybe there is persicussion  in my future, but for now, things are very peaceful.

[Nelson Boils]

If the walk is too easy which is contrary to what the scriptures are saying,maybe you are living in a closet.

It is going to come,perhaps it is right around the corner.

Food for thought.

[Wanda]

If the walk is too easy which is contrary to what the scriptures are saying,maybe you are living in a closet.

It is going to come,perhaps it is right around the corner.

Food for thought.

I didn't say it was easy, far from it.

Ephesians 6:12  (NIV)

12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms

I don't live in a closet,  but I'm more isolated than I've ever been. I don't often have contact with others except when I'm out running errands, and I'm not moved to discuss God durring those times, so there isnt any reason I would experience persecution. If I was inclined to talk about God with anyone, including my own sons, I would definatly open myself up to persecution,  but I am not inspired to do that, unless someone asks me a question pertaining to God, and even then I carefully consider the persons intentions.

Do we only consider ourselves, who believe we have the truth the only ones being persecuted? What about believers, are not many of them suffering persecution today?
I was most certainly a believer, and believed I had the only truth, before coming to a more accurate understanding, and I was persecuted every day of my life as a result.

Matt. 10:22

and ye shall be hated by all because of my name, but he who hath endured to the end, he shall be saved.

People are dying, and being tortured everyday for simply believing Jesus is the savior.
Is this not being persecuted and hated because of his name?

[octoberose]

Wanda, I've listened to you long enough now to know that you carry burdens and sadness.  If you walked as the world walks , perhaps some of these burdens would be less .  But you don't .  Persecution doesn't have to be the lions den - it can be isolation, grief, loss - any evil that we are confronted with because of who we are in Christ .
I don't know why but all of us here experience the aloneness of being set apart as Christ followers who dont have a home .  Where is there a congregation of people who believe like us?   We found out pretty quickly that those around us don't usually  appreciate us rocking the boat . Isn't that also persecution?

[Dave in Tenn]

Outside of the Lord Jesus, the two clearest new testament biblical accounts of persecution are Stephen and Saul/Paul.  The latter of those was among the persecutors of the former before the Lord changed him.  In both cases, the persecutions came from the religiously powerful.  I'm betting that in many of our lives, we have some of "both" in our pasts, if not our presents.  Wanda does.       

[Nelson Boils]

Hi Wanda,

I wasn't directing my post to you.That wouldn't be fair from me as I don't know you nor what you going through.It was just food for thought for anyone who may have thought as I did,which was that the walk was relatively easy.But now I am seeing flames.

I think at times I put myself under pressure.I read Scripture and see the Apostles dying,beaten and compare that to myself,which doesn't happen.Different times perhaps?Probably.But the Word doesn't change.During our times,perhaps many of us will not be physically beaten due to the freedom some of our countries give us,but then again,have i spoken too soon?Only God knows what tomorrow holds,and if any of us knew what tomorrow holds for us,we would probably not wanna live or go through that.

I mean who here can say they are hated because of what they believe?

[Dave in Tenn]

I mean who here can say they are hated because of what they believe?

In a way, that kind of misses the point.  Christians today are most often hated because of what other people believe.  Sure, some are hated because they behave badly and contrarily to what they say they believe--but that  in itself assumes some "love" for the message and for Christ in general.  Those two are the visible and obvious "persecutions" going on in the world today.

The "invisible" persecution happens in the pews from the pulpit. 

What I believe doesn't arm me to hate anybody...period.  And (so far, at least) expressing what I believe doesn't raise hatred in any others except for some "Christians". 

Lay aside for a moment church history on martyrs.  Read what God inspired into scripture about The Lord Jesus, Stephen and Saul/Paul.  Where did it come from?  What did it lead to?  How did the Lord Jesus and Paul "survive"/thrive?  One thing is certain--you will understand what you are supposed to understand when you do. 

[lareli]

Do we persecute ourselves? Worse than anyone else could?

[Musterseed]

When you hear the word persecution,it is automatically considered to be of religious or political
origin. Like it is something that is done to someone's else but nothing you have done yourself.

Aren' t we all persecuters, evil hearted beasts and ONLY BY THE GRACE( GRACING) OF GOD's
FIRE AND BRIMSTONE are we blessed to be cleansed and purged of this abomination of
free will ,self purification, arrogance , pride, lust and anger? We are children of wrath,( anger) not
God's wrath, our own. Thank God for His mercy on us and eventually all mankind.

Quote from Ray " The man of sin, son of perdition is UNIVERSAL and found in ALL MANKIND.
THAT IS HOW SATAN DECEIVES THE WHOLE WORLD.

In Christ
Pamela
Much Love❤️