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Why Did Jesus think His Father had left Him?

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Wanda:
Pamela -

This is what Billy Grahm taught, and many others teach the same.

The penalty for sin is death (Romans 6:23). Death includes two dimensions—physical and spiritual. Physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body. Spiritual death is the separation of the spirit from God. Since Jesus was dying for our sin as our substitute, He was experiencing the agony of separation from His Father. It was the agony of hell.

I've read bible commentators who hold to this view that Jesus became sin for us and therefore his Father had to forsake him because God cannot stand sin. I think this idea comes  from 2 Corinthians 5:21, in the NIV and KJV,  “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God.”

Another translation

2 Corinthians 5:21 NLT
For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

Big difference in Jesus being sin verses being a sin offering.

Heb 4:15 KJV - 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

John 16:32
“You [disciples] will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.”

2 Corinthians 5:19
“To wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.”





 

Musterseed:
Thank you Wanda
I finished reading Rays transcript, Was Christ Made Sin and Ray blows
the false teachings out of the water.

This is from The Fathers Will transcript.

Jesus Christ accomplished many, many things.I just want to cover three giant things He accomplished  as a human being.

1) I have overcome the world(John16:33). As a human being He overcame all the pulls of the world.
2) For even hereunto were ye called; because Christ also suffered FOR US leaving us an example,
and ye should FOLLOW HIS STEPS; WHO DID NO SIN, neither was there guile(deceit) found in
His mouth. (1 Peter 2: 21-22).
3) Who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil world
according to the will of God and our Father. (Gal.1:4)

The will of the Father is the one who really loved the Father of humanity, Jesus Christ,
the Creator of heaven and earth and the human race.

All praise and glory to Our Saviour, Our Lord and God , Jesus Christ .

In Christ Pamela

Prune Soleiado:
So, if I understand well, NO ONE HERE ON THIS FORUM has never felt this feeling of being abandoned by God???????
As Jesus is the only mediator who can understand our sufferings as human flesh, NO ONE is able to say "Oh yes I have thought about this also"???? But I only hear answers with cold words, heartless words echoing religeous lessons they have learned in human books?
Are we all as hypocrits as those Worldwide Christians saying that it was ONLY meant to fulfill the prophecy?????
I mean, hello there, we know we are in flesh, and for this Reason, Paramount Reason, we know exactly what Jesus felt on the cross when He asks God why He had abandoned Him!!!!! BECAUSE we exactly asked/ask the same question when we went/go throught very hard times!!!
Isn't that the proof Christ, Our Lord and Savior, IS TOTALLY ABLE to understand our sufferings and intercede for us with Our Heavenly Father? Stop searching absolutly for the psalm or verse that would respond to your wonderings. Look at your heart first, remembering how fleshly we are, and then remember God's Word:
"15 Jesus understands every weakness of ours, because he was tempted in every way that we are. But HE DID NOT SIN [like us]! 16 So whenever we are in need [that means practically Always, let's be clear about it], we should come
bravely before the throne of our merciful God [meditating on His word, like Jesus did when remembering Psalm 22]. There we will be treated with undeserved kindness, and we will find help." (Hebrews 4:15-16)
Hasn't Jesus taken all of the sin of the world when He was on cross? This doubt, isn't it a message for us to understand what sin can create in us? A remoteness from God? When we sin, we go so far away from His Glory, like the lost son (Luke 15:11-32).
Of course the prophecy was to be fulfill, but remember we have to be His testimony, and Jesus is the First testimony above all. THE ALPHA;
What was He saying after all on the cross? Read Matthew 7:23 in the positive way: "I KNOW YOU, COME CLOSER TO ME YOU GOD'S CHILDREN". Jesus knows us. He knows our flaws, our weaknesses, our fears, because He has felt those while on earth, wether Inside His Flesh (without in any ways sinning like us) or looking at the mob (with much pity) surrounding Him.
We cannot relegate this feeling of being abandoned by God with words, but we must understand it with ours feelings, for we have already all experienced it. We asked/ask exactly the same question, and hypocrit is the one who would tell the contrary.
Every day we are tempted to ask this question. Every day we claim for justice about those who bully us or our brothers and sisters. And each day we wait for a concrete answer. What concrete answer?
What Jesus tells us, is that HOPE is the key. Let me tell you a secret: WE WON'T HAVE AN ANSWER STRAIGHT AWAY!!!! In psalm 22, when David glorifies God for answering to him, you can consider this answer has taken maybe months even years before God gave an answer to David's complaints!!!
Let's be patient. That's the message of "why did you abandoned me". PATIENCE. WAIT. WAIT WHILE IT'S LOADING. WAIT WHILE BUFFERING. You know how it works. It is not a network problem. It is just that "There is a time for everything" (Ecclesiastes 3:1), according to God's marvelous plan. And we, miserable humans, cannot realize the entire scale of this divine plan. That's what Jesus taught us on the cross saying "Eloi Eloi Lamma Sabachtani".

Wanda:

--- Quote ---So, if I understand well, NO ONE HERE ON THIS FORUM has never felt this feeling of being abandoned by God???????

As Jesus is the only mediator who can understand our sufferings as human flesh, NO ONE is able to say "Oh yes I have thought about this also"???? But I only hear answers with cold words, heartless words echoing religeous lessons they have learned in human books?

Are we all as hypocrits as those Worldwide Christians saying that it was ONLY meant to fulfill the prophecy?????
I mean, hello there, we know we are in flesh, and for this Reason, Paramount Reason, we know exactly what Jesus felt on the cross when He asks God why He had abandoned Him!!!!! BECAUSE we exactly asked/ask the same question when we went/go throught very hard times!!!
--- End quote ---

My words


--- Quote ---Even on the cross he continued to do his fathers will, because the Father was with him every step of the way to comfort him in his extreme suffering. I get great comfort in knowing, although Jesus surely suffered,  he was never for one minute alone in any of it. I'm  also greatly  encouraged  from this fact, knowing if at some point I have to go through some extreme physical suffering , I'm comforted by knowing I will not have to endure it on my own either.

--- End quote ---

You'll get no argument from me that Jesus endured great suffering, but even so, I cannot  believe Jesus felt abandoned by his father for one second. I can say this because of my own experiences in suffering many things that I could not have endured had I not put all my trust in him to deliver me from my pain and suffering. Once I came to know and understand the one true God, I've not experienced the feeling of being abandoned by God at any time.. I've not endured extreme physical pain, as Jesus did, but I have faith to believe I would never be abandoned to endure it alone if I was to suffer in a physical way.  My past sufferings have given me great faith in God to sustain me unto my physical death.

Think of Jesus words here.

John 16:32
“You [disciples] will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.”
These are not some random empty words Jesus spoke here. They are words of truth and have great conviction. They are also a testimony from Jesus, as a truth given us in faith, that like Jesus, we are never alone no matter what trials we may ever be faced with.

As a person in the flesh I can identify with everyone  who suffers, and some on a very deep and personal level, but I don't have to suffer the thoughts I've been abandoned to do that. My testimony to others would be my own suffering and how God never for one second abandoned me through any of it. 

Imagine what a testimony to the world that would be, if the son of God would declare publically that he believed his father had truly abandoned him in his greatest time of need.

Wanda:
Dear Michelle,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point here. I'll carefully meditate on your words.

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