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Another Possible Example of Where Proper Translation Meets Science

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Wanda:
Amen and thanks for posting this Pamela.

Who wouldn't want to talk with Adam and Eve,  the first created in the image of God. I can only imagin the close relationship Adam must have had with God while in the Garden, and how much he must have missed that time alone, learning from and talking to him. I know how badly I feel if I don't get time alone with God even for one day, although I don't  believe God was ever very far away from him.

ZekeSr:
Here is an excerpt from one of Ray's emails:

Ray

Almighty God has protected His perfect inerrant Infallible alive Word through all ages. His Word has not been lost He said Heaven and earth shall pass away but my Words shall never fade away. God says in Psalms Thy Word is ever settled in heaven. Friend Jesus in Luke chapter 16 says their was a certain rich man and in hell he lifted up his eyes in torments.
You can say what you want and play a wise fool if you like for the Bible says professing themselves to be wise they became fools. Their is most definitely a place of hell. Only a man that God has reprobated who is void of judgment and understanding could come up with the theory that you have. I laughed pretty good as I read how you get around the truths of Gods Bible. Death is coming for you and friend if the Holy Ghost don't open your eyes that place that you try to explain away will certainly be your eternal destiny.


[Ray Replies]
Dear Nameless:

My friend, are you always so dogmatic about things you know absolutely nothing about? In three short sentences you change "God's Word" into "God's Bible." As though they were one and the same thing!!! God's WORD is INERRANT! Men's BIBLES are filled with ERROR! I was at a large Bible Book Store yesterday. There are HUNDREDS of translations. Why is that? Are the ALL INERRANT? If they were, then they would all be translated with the SAME WORDS!

Even the revered King James Version is not a pure 'translation' out of the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, but rather is a revision of other translations including the Catholic Latin Vulgate by Jerome. Did you know that the 1611 King James Bibles contained fourteen additional books that are no longer found in the modern King James Bible? Which edition was "inerrant," the one WITH the fourteen additional books or the ones WITHOUT the fourteen additional books? We are not talking about a word or two here, we are talking about WHOLE BOOKS disappearing from the King James Version!!!

Mike

Wanda:

--- Quote from: Musterseed on March 09, 2020, 06:37:13 PM ---Hi Octoberose
I was reading about this today in ( More of Rays teaching transcripts on the forum)
An email about the creation account in Genesis. I will quote some of what Ray had to say about it ok.

Chapter two does not recount the creation of humanity, but rather the creation of Adam and Eve.
In Gen.1:6 God made ( Heb. asah) male and female.  In Gen. 2:6 God formed ( Heb. yatsar) Adam.
Two different Hebrew words , two different formations. Notice that it doesn’t say in chapter 2 vs. 3
that there was no man on earth at this time but rather that there was no man to till the ground.
There were men but they were hunters/ gatherers, not farmers. God is now going to make a more
advanced human to cultivate the land. The phrase dress it and keep it is tend and cultivate.God is
teaching Adam to be a farmer.

There is more so you can read it. Hope it helps.

John 15:1
I am the true vine and my Father is the farmer.

God is our spiritual farmer.

--- End quote ---

Hi Pam,

Being fair to Ray and Considering what Octoberose said about this forum being read publically, and being ready to give an answer when asked, I kept thinking on what you've posted.

Some might think Ray was being influenced by science, but I don't think that's necessarily true, I think God's word influenced his thinking about science.  Considering how diligently Ray dug into scripture, I believe he always put God's word above everything.  I didn't see this until last night while trying to go to sleep, but it became clear what he saw was not some far fetched speculation nor unscriptural, because Ray never went outside the bounds of God's word in anything he publically revealed. I find it hard to believe he didn't think of this from every scriptural angle, because that's how he was. His teachings are a witness to this.

I'm understanding him to say in Genesis 1 God created humanity, male and female.  And in Genesis 2 a continuation of this creation process in creating Adam the first man. In what way are we to understand this,  the very first and only man created, or the first in God's plan?  We know that Jesus was not litterally the last man,  as we read in 1 Corinthians 15:45,  so perhaps Adam was not literally the first man.  If all humanity was created from the same material,  one blood, all would be genetically connected and in the image of God.  In this regard, mankind, male and female could be living in the earth before Adam was created approximately 6000 years ago. So it is possible Ray was on to something, but didn't consider it so important as to devote hours of study to, like other things he considered more important.

If this is true,  Heidi would be correct in what she sees about the many and the few, as well as what others are seeing.  All is possible with God,  Everything else I thought I understood about God was wrong, perhaps I should add this to the many others.  Something I remember Dave from Tenn saying,  "We don't all know what we think we do'. How true that is. I also know this would upset some who understand Genesis 3:20 to be literal, but it would also lend credibility to what others are seeing as symbolic.

And yes, I've considered someone can find a flaw in my understanding, but more importantly those who spent time discussing this with Ray might add something I didn't think of.

Musterseed:
Thanks for your input Wanda. God indeed is the ultimate influencer, in all
things. All is of God and all means all.😊

God said your thoughts are not my thoughts and your ways are not my ways.
 
I agree with Heidi also about the many and the few and Dave’s statement as well.

I think we are still very primitive actually , but I sure do love listening to Ray teach
about the science of this universe. I can’t believe I’m reading the laws of thermodynamics
and about atoms and protons and molecules etc and enjoying it. Someone pinch me.😃
I love our Lord so much , He is so awesome in so many ways and I know we all feel
the same way.

Yes Ray worked very hard, a vessel of honor doing the works he was created to do.
He raised the dead, the spiritually dead. How many of us were sent to Bible Truths
by our own fabled free will? Duh 🙄 😂

As for the study of the account of the creation of humanity in Genesis, I think it’s
multilayered and filled with spiritual lessons. I’m still in awe of everything.

God Bless all of you and a big thanks  to Dennis, Rene and Dave. We are very grateful
for you. 💕

In Christ
Pamela

ZekeSr:
Regardless of an atheistic view seemingly being a requirement for MEMBERS of the scientific community (and almost a religion in and of itself), TRUE PROVEN SCIENCE in-and-of-itself is not the enemy of religion. On the other hand… misinterpreted, misunderstood, closed minded religious dogma is, and always has been, the enemy of science.
One of the things I always found fascinating and different about Ray… different from anyone else that I know of… was his ability and willingness to use TRUE PROVEN SCIENCE as another tool (not the only tool, but a steppingstone) to tenaciously dig deeper into Scripture and patiently wait for God to begin to open his eyes to the valid meaning, and often the subtext, behind the words.

Mike

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