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how to address Jesus in the resurrection

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Dave in Tenn:
A couple of thoughts from reading the thread.

1.  "We shall not all sleep, BUT we shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.".  This includes those who "sleep".  Given that there is no knowledge in death, this changing in a moment is just as true for those who sleep as for those who "shall not".  Was Paul preaching foolishness when he hoped for the time when his change comes or did he lose that hope upon dying?  Who is changed first?  The "dead in Christ", or those that are alive and remain?

2.  Is there really a correctly, decently translated scripture that says there will be people who never die?  It is appointed unto man once to die.  Given that those who are alive and remain will be changed, and after those who sleep... maybe there is something more lofty about "dying" than Churchianity has taught us.  It's no second-class resurrection, and no disappointment that by the will of God "we've" missed the "lucky" generation who are alive and remain.

Personally, I don't expect to be alive at His appearing.  And that's okay with me, because He has already appeared to me in Spirit and "resurrected" me from death to faith.  And to me, that tops everything.

AwesomeSavior:
Dave:

Yes, it is appointed unto man once to die. However, Ray would also mention that the sum of His word is truth.

As an example of using Scripture both ways (natural and spiritual), we know that Romans 1:26-27 condemns homosexuality, but... is there a deeper, spiritual meaning? Yes.

Therefore, look at 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 through the same lens of both interpretations, the spiritual (as you have mentioned), and the natural. In the natural, verses 15 and 17 in particular are a double witness to people being alive when the Lord returns.

I will be 56 years old next month. I can tell you personally that I am not planning to die before His return.

Dean

Musterseed:
Hey Dean
Did you notice my post in the thread updates.
I quoted Rays explanation of 1 Thes:4:15-16. 🤔
Those not only alive but surviving changing conditions.
What are those conditions as we venture further into
our journey? God has cut short the time for the sake of
the elect, because of great tribulation and the conditions
of the earth. The rapture paper explains a lot.

Heb.12:27-28… REMOVING ( caps Rays) those things that are shaken
that those things that cannot be shaken may REMAIN….accepting
an unshakable Kingdom.

The parables of the Sower and the Parable of the Net .

John 17:15… didn’t our Lord clearly pray to His Father
“ I am not asking that thou shouldest be taking them AWAY ( cap’s Rays)
OUT OF THE WORLD, but that thou shouldest be keeping them from
the wicked one.

As in the days of Noah, Noah and his family remained on the earth.
The good are retained and kept.

This Rapture Paper along with The Myth of Free Will, for my understanding are of Rays most excellent works. They are all amazing of course but I study these two the most.

We are groaning, longing to be dressed in our habitation which is out of heaven..

God Bless you all.


Nevertheless , whether we live or die , we are the Lords. Thank the Lord.

Dave in Tenn:
I'm not denying either the Spiritual or the literal, though certitude in many matters eludes me.  And that's ok with me too.  Whatever measure of faith and understanding I have was given to me.  It simply is. Not. Up. To. Me. to determine His steps. 

Let's assume you are correct in your assumption.  What I'm asking is--of what particular benefit is it to be "alive and remaining"? 

indianabob:
Valid point Dave.
The great majority of saints are long gone and yet their change will seem to come immediately after they lost consciousness.
I believe that Paul was reassuring the saints of his day that they would not lose their loved ones who had already died in faith. Plus it seems that Paul was expecting the return to be quite soon, even in his normal life time.
Bob

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