> General Discussions
how to address Jesus in the resurrection
AK4:
Sorry I need to reply more on this because this subject is what I live by and have thought about countlessly...being part of the generation that will never ever die/how to address Jesus in the resurrection. I have lots of thoughts on this and will try not to get to longwinded lol
Dave
"Was Paul preaching foolishness when he hoped for the time when his change comes or did he lose that hope upon dying? Who is changed first? The "dead in Christ", or those that are alive and remain?"---Dave, well the scriptures say the dead will rise before those living shall be changed---Ooohhh that just made me think that that will also be a sign along with the coming of Jesus in the clouds and the sounding of the trump. We will see the dead rise, probably amazed and then boom we are changed in an instant. Sorry I went on a tangent there lol. But was Paul preaching foolishness? You know I thought about how Paul had to feel being given this prophecy, having that hope that he will part of that generation that will never ever die then later in life realizing that he wasn't going to be one of the ones who fulfill that prophecy. Its really depressing just thinking about it that way but he kept the faith and that's the way I look at. And honestly it would be a huge disappointment to me if I didn't make it. Ive prayed to the Father about this many many times.
"Is there really a correctly, decently translated scripture that says there will be people who never die?"---That's why I think 1 Cor 15:51 is so clear for this never ever dying/seeing Jesus return with the clouds. Its so clear like Phil 2:13 is for no freewill. I personally haven't found another verse so clear as 1 Cor 15:51 but there are lots of places in scriptures that allude to it. Its kind of like what Ray says in the lake of fire series about "seeing the invisible". When I read the scriptures, there are verses that just pops out on this subject where Im seeing the invisible that matches up with "we shall not all sleep" even though its not directly saying it.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.
See right in there. We wait for His Son from heaven---well the ones alive are waiting too and--who rescues us from the wrath to come---well those people are alive when they are rescued. That lines up perfectly with we shall not all sleep but be changed.
AK4:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on March 01, 2022, 05:39:49 AM ---Let's assume you are correct in your assumption. What I'm asking is--of what particular benefit is it to be "alive and remaining"?
--- End quote ---
I see lots of benefits of it personally. I really like the idea of being part of the ones fulfilling that prophecy. I think there will be a feeling of relief and justification and jubilee etc etc and that we will be a GREAT witness along with those resurrected of Gods power and His plan. We will be able to talk to those who we are going to save like "look what God did to me...Im 200 years old and look like a teenager. You can trust me that my God will do the same for you if you listen to what we are telling you."
Hmmm just had a thought there...will we be like the apostles of their time with powers to perform miracles and one of those miracles is showing those who are to be saved that we were given immortality? Hmm just a thought
Anyway I see lots of benefits of it. Even like teaching those who need to be saved and believe in hell and that the lake of fire is literally the second death. No we can show them that no the lake of fire is not a literal 2nd death, look at us, are we dead we can ask them.
Musterseed:
Listen to the audio on you tube The day and hour prophecy. Let me know what you think please.
Also I have a question.
Why would God have to shorten the days of tribulation for the sake of the elect ?
A good read is LOfF Pt.C. RE, eonian life, and dying
And more specific scriptures about this are in the Rapture Study, beginning just above
THE RAPTURE OF THE WICKED. ( caps Rays)
Quoting Ray here from the Rapture Paper, “ It was always God’s intention for the righteous to
REMAIN on the earth.
Then he quotes scriptures to confirm it.
I don’t have an opinion. I have been studying this for quite a while now but this is what I see so far.
I just want to share and get your thoughts if you like.
In Christ , Pamela❤️
Dave in Tenn:
Anthony, again you are repeating the first recorded lie of Satan. Everybody dies. Everybody. This mortal MUST put on immortality and this corruption MUST put on incorruption.
So what do we do with this statement that those who are "alive and remain" are changed? For my part, it makes me look at "dying" in a new and "higher" light. There is a difference between "dying" and "being dead". The latter is likened to "sleep". The former, I believe, is spiritually synonymous with "change". Those He has chosen have plenty of dying to do but until this "body of death" gives way, they are not yet fit to rule because they have not fully followed the Lord, who died and was raised.
There are very likely other ways to understand this, and I'm content to let others have theirs--as long as it does not repeat or endorse Satan's first recorded lie, even if it is done carelessly.
I try to temper my imagination in these matters. All I care about is that there will be a few who are "born of the Spirit" and, thus, are bearing the fruit of the Spirit. Nothing else matters to me, and if the next age resembles the vanities of this age, then Dear God, please leave me dead.
Check out the materials Pamela mentioned. I'm on my phone and can't post a link, but the LOF part entitled "The origins of endless punishment" is Good Reading. Take care.
AK4:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on March 02, 2022, 03:57:33 AM ---Anthony, again you are repeating the first recorded lie of Satan. Everybody dies. Everybody. This mortal MUST put on immortality and this corruption MUST put on incorruption.
So what do we do with this statement that those who are "alive and remain" are changed? For my part, it makes me look at "dying" in a new and "higher" light. There is a difference between "dying" and "being dead". The latter is likened to "sleep". The former, I believe, is spiritually synonymous with "change". Those He has chosen have plenty of dying to do but until this "body of death" gives way, they are not yet fit to rule because they have not fully followed the Lord, who died and was raised.
There are very likely other ways to understand this, and I'm content to let others have theirs--as long as it does not repeat or endorse Satan's first recorded lie, even if it is done carelessly.
I try to temper my imagination in these matters. All I care about is that there will be a few who are "born of the Spirit" and, thus, are bearing the fruit of the Spirit. Nothing else matters to me, and if the next age resembles the vanities of this age, then Dear God, please leave me dead.
Check out the materials Pamela mentioned. I'm on my phone and can't post a link, but the LOF part entitled "The origins of endless punishment" is Good Reading. Take care.
--- End quote ---
Wait what??? How so? Is repeating 1 Cor 15:51 repeating satans lie?
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Is that repeating the lie? It clearly says it right there that there will be a generation of people that will not die. They will be living then changed. The whole chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians is all about the resurrection, the order, bodies, the false teachings etc etc.
Even Ray taught this. For those who will be partakers in this "we shall not all sleep", they must die but dying to self, judge yourself now so that you don't have to be judged. He said or better stated he repeated the verse "it is appointed unto men once to die then judgement" then he went on to explain there is those who are dead but living like when Jesus said let the dead bury their dead---he explained that those people (we are those people before coming to Christ) are spiritually dead and so we, you, have to die from being that person and thus you are appointed once to die, that is your death. Then judgment--judge yourself lest you will be judged.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality
The mortal must put on immortality. That's not repeating satans lie. Satans lie is that you were born immortal. Paul is saying you are mortal and must be given immortality. Two totally different ideas.
Dave, this subject is deep and fascinating to ponder on. But it is an idea/theory/prophecy that no other religion has. Where in Gods teaching, death means death and so when you die, you die. So God says when He returns not only will those who died be brought back to life but those living will be changed to live forever too. No other religion/teaching that I know teaches that.
(Lol I just reread that line "satans lie is that you were born immortal"---born immortal---talk about a contradiction lol)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version