> General Discussions
how to address Jesus in the resurrection
AK4:
--- Quote from: Musterseed on March 01, 2022, 07:08:26 PM ---Listen to the audio on you tube The day and hour prophecy. Let me know what you think please.
Also I have a question.
Why would God have to shorten the days of tribulation for the sake of the elect ?
--- End quote ---
Why would God shorten those days? I think there is a clue, maybe a flat out statement...
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. kjv
Now the NIV
22“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
So no one would survive??? I take that 2 ways. 1. Its to save the elect and the rest be killed. But I don't think that one fits with the rest of scripture. 2. Its to save the elect and on behalf of the elect (for the elects sake) the rest of the people will be spared/saved.
for the sake of
διὰ (dia)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 1223: A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through.
Now I never noticed that. So through the acts (maybe prayers) of the elect, those days will be shortened. Interesting.
--- Quote ---And more specific scriptures about this are in the Rapture Study, beginning just above
THE RAPTURE OF THE WICKED. ( caps Rays)
Quoting Ray here from the Rapture Paper, “ It was always God’s intention for the righteous to
REMAIN on the earth.
Then he quotes scriptures to confirm it.
I don’t have an opinion. I have been studying this for quite a while now but this is what I see so far.
I just want to share and get your thoughts if you like.
--- End quote ---
I think we are on the same page here. It was eye opening when Ray pointed out that if there was to be a rapture as taught by Babylon, the scriptures pretty much show that the rapture will be of the wicked. Listen to this audio of Rays. It also fits how if there was to be a rapture (as they teach it), it most likely would be of the wicked
August 6th, 2006 Hell Does Not Exist
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Hell_08-06-2006.mp3
AK4:
--- Quote from: Musterseed on February 27, 2022, 12:10:21 PM ---Hey Dean
Did you notice my post in the thread updates.
I quoted Rays explanation of 1 Thes:4:15-16. 🤔
Those not only alive but surviving changing conditions.
What are those conditions as we venture further into
our journey? God has cut short the time for the sake of
the elect, because of great tribulation and the conditions
of the earth. The rapture paper explains a lot.
Heb.12:27-28… REMOVING ( caps Rays) those things that are shaken
that those things that cannot be shaken may REMAIN….accepting
an unshakable Kingdom.
The parables of the Sower and the Parable of the Net .
John 17:15… didn’t our Lord clearly pray to His Father
“ I am not asking that thou shouldest be taking them AWAY ( cap’s Rays)
OUT OF THE WORLD, but that thou shouldest be keeping them from
the wicked one.
As in the days of Noah, Noah and his family remained on the earth.
The good are retained and kept.
This Rapture Paper along with The Myth of Free Will, for my understanding are of Rays most excellent works. They are all amazing of course but I study these two the most.
We are groaning, longing to be dressed in our habitation which is out of heaven..
God Bless you all.
Nevertheless , whether we live or die , we are the Lords. Thank the Lord.
--- End quote ---
Niiice catches. Very nice. And I'm still thinking on your premise. .the conditions...basically how does God turn flesh to immortal instantly..going by His laws of science etc. . Thats something I haven't thought of in the way you present it. I really likes. Idk what's your theory?
Musterseed:
Did you not read LOF Origins of endless punishment? Ray explains and answers Do believer’s already possess eonian life? Do believers in Christ never die? Believers do not die for the eon , etc.
This is just one excerpt but you should read all of it . I read over and over and over paying
attention to all the word’s especially Rays caps .
Now then I say brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God,
neither does corruption inherit incorruption . Behold , I show you a mystery,we shall
not all sleep.(according to Christiandom,no one will ever sleep. They contradict by saying there is no such thing as sleep in death, but they lie.) Psalm 13:3 , Consider and hear me O my God,,,,,
less I sleep the sleep OF DEATH) but we shall all be changed.[WHEN]? This is so important.
When shall we be changed? At the instant that all believers die? NO.,,,,, in a moment, in the twinkling
of an eye, at the last trump, ( then and only then and AT NO OTHER TIME IN HISTORY) for the
trumpet shall sound, and the dead ( the dead, mind you, not the living, but the dead) shall be
raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
at the resurrection we will be given incorruption and immortality which means deathlessness.
John 11:24 I know that he shall he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
The last day IS the resurrection from the dead.
vs.25-26….Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead ( margin reads May die) , yet shall he live: And whosoever lives and believes in me
shall never die, ( GK. Should by no means be dying for the eon) Believe you this?
This KJV scripture contradicts. ,,,,,,John 11:26 is a translation in error and the one used by
theologians to pervert the word of God and to continue Satans lie of you shall NOT surely die.
BTW, o
This is I think what Dave was talking about, correct me if I misunderstand Dave.
If someone believes in Christ and then DIES, yet shall he live, contradicts
If someone believes in Christ he will never die.
Ray,, am I going to fast for anyone?😁
Please read John 20-24,,, the conversation Jesus had with Peter about John.
I do not have a theory about how our change will come AK4 , I just know it will be at the last day.
Well, when is the last day? At Christ’s coming in the day of the Lord. Paul’s epistles of the Thessalonians
is quite informative and the rapture paper explains about the elect REMAINING UNTIL.
Ok so that’s enough for now my old fingers are tired.
O and since Gods laws work in the entirety of the universe, the laws of thermodynamics are
working on all matter. Ray said the earth is very old . Everything physical is in decay.
I did a little study on entropy. Form what I understand, every physical is passing away.
To quote Ray,,, it’s getting , older ,colder ,and darker. This to me is also a spiritual statement.
Another quote from Ray “ Birth is a miracle, but death also is a miracle.
Something just came to my mind. If we are to follow in the very footsteps of Jesus,
and we are.,,,, Jesus said “ Follow Me” ,,,,,,Jesus physically died.
God Bless you all , our faith rests in the power of God.💕
Porter:
Ray also said that Paul and the disciples believed Jesus would appear and change them in their lifetime, but obviously it didn't happen.
DISCIPLES THOUGHT JESUS WOULD COME IN THEIR LIFETIME
I Thess. 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
Paul said, “we who are alive and remain.” Now you could say he’s just saying “we,” whoever the we are at that time of His coming. But no, it sounds like he’s saying, we right now here. Those of us that are alive until His coming, we won’t actually go to sleep we’ll just be changed. You know, he’ll come and the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we will rise to meet the Lord in the air.
I Cor. 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep…
Paul thought Christ would come before he would go to sleep(die).
https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,5815.0.html
indianabob:
Valid point Porter,
In my understanding...if I am alive at Christ's return my flesh body will die and will be instantly replaced with a NEW body of the manner of Christ's body. In other words by flesh will not disappear from view it will just lie down and begin to decay.
My spirit, my mind, my thoughts will be contained in my new spiritual body and I will not know that my flesh is dying or dead or in the sleep of death. Of course the term sleep of death requires that a person awaken and of course with the same body restored. Whereas in my case I will get a new spiritual body and not a restored flesh body.
Now the next point (corrections welcome) is that those in the judgement who are the goats and not the sheep, will be cast into the Lake of Fire, which is the "second death". Since spirit cannot die and possesses deathlessness, then is appears that those sent to the Lake of fire, the second death, necessarily had to be resurrected flesh and blood.
=
Does the above explanation make sense? Is it scriptural?
Bob
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