> General Discussions
In the beginning...
snorky:
This going back and forth between Lightseeker (Dee) and some of you all is wierd. I detect a bit of feeling annoyance here, what with claiming Dee needs to be of like mind (on every single issue, on every point Ray discerns? Heck, I don't think even I agree with everything Ray says completely, at least at this time) as everyone else. Funny this should be happening now, since according to the star rating system, Dee has posted enough times to be a junior member!
Just my two cents. It seems to me that this forum (as well as Ray's articles) are for us to learn from. I may be wrong but I don't detect that Lightseeker is just arguing for the sake of arguing, but I may be wrong. I just hope any criticism of Lightseeker (or me for bringing this up) is done in love and fellowship.--snorky
Kat:
snorky,
What I am trying to say,
is that this is a bible-truth forum.
If someone continually disagrees with the basic beliefs held here,
are they trying to learn or teach?
Kat
chuckusa:
Hello all,
I would like to make a few observations and comments.
First, Lightseeker...you say that we shouldn't treat the word of God, the ONLY word of God that we have...as the living word. That statement in itself, sets your views completely apart from mine, and I would venture to say apart from most of the people who post here...and most assuridly Rays view.
Secondly, by what authority, or reference do you utilize in discerning a false prophet from a true prophet (assuming that they even do exist today) if NOT the word of God. I have tried to pinpoint what it is exactly that you feel we should use...our own opinions, someone elses opinions? If you feel this way, then would not any new words spoken by a "prophet" be subject to this same logic, and could they not also be declared irrelevant when they no longer seem useful or when they no longer make sense to you?
I think that this is an extremely dangerous view to hold, and one that I personally wouldn't associate with. In my opinion, trying to seperate from the written word of God, while insinuating that you follow that same God is nothing short of blasphemy.
I make these observations and statements with reservation because I know all too well that quite often what we mean to say, or what we are trying to convey can become quite muddled by the nature of this type of forum, and by the written word. I think this has been a problem with other threads where assumptions are made, and made again, and then misinterpereted because of a faulty quote, etc, etc...
Perhaps that was what you were trying to point out?
In my opinion, this type of discourse only confuses and causes resentment. I would suggest taking each single aspect of your argument to God in the form of study and comparison. In that I mean comparison with Rays teachings because that is what this forum is for...to express our understanding of his teachings. What you SEEM to be suggesting, in my opinion, does NOT follow Rays teachings.
Even if I am wrong, and am merely confused as to your intent, this thread, simply because of its tone, has become counterproductive. Do you agree?
There have been at least three witnesses to THAT, I feel.
I hope in the future that you, or anyone else will gently correct ME, should my writing skills or tone, or method of questioning (or whatever) cause any misunderstanding between brothers and sisters.
Remember lightseeker, I did say " what you SEEM to be suggesting". I am not accusing you, merely pointing out how what you say...could make someone feel. I assume you Love the Lord and are doing your best to follow him, as I am.
With Love, and respect,
Chuck
angie:
lightseeker
High Dee
You said to Bobby
--- Quote ---I believe there is a difference between what scripture calls 'the word of/from God' and the book of scriptures, which we call the bible. A book which doesn't have a single copy of the one true original inspired word which was 'spoken' by God to 'a man' and written on a scroll.
--- End quote ---
The original writing were called signatures, of which there is not one scrap left. However, there were many Hebrew and Greek manuscripts made that were faithfully copied from those signatures [also a few that were not] These are not exactly what you see in your bible. So you see, the bible and the scriptures are two separate and distinct things. Ray was correct when he says there is not one true translation. You must study them, always referring back to the scriptures. Having said that, if you can't see because God has not opened your eyes to see, you can study till you are blue in the face and never see the true spiritual meaning.
--- Quote ---66 books over thousands of years...Did everyone get left out who lived before Moses wrote? Or did God need a couple thousand more years to get His point accross? Or is His spoken word still alive and spoken to those who walk with God as Enoch did....even though there's nothing written til Moses...as far as we know.
--- End quote ---
I cant imagine how you think that everyone before moses wrote was left out, since we start with ' in the beginning',listing every generation from Adam. As far as it goes with regard to God needing
--- Quote ---a couple thousand more years to get His point accross?
--- End quote ---
You will need to take that up with Him [An while you're at it, ask why there was a 400 year gap between going down to Egypt an coming back out again]
--- Quote ---As far as prophets...I do believe there are prophets.
--- End quote ---
Like who? Muhammed? Joseph Smith? The guy next door? If you have such a belief, why would you, unless you had someone or something in mind? :-\
explain please.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book
I could be wrong here Dee but this is telling me that everything we need to know is contained in THIS book, that there is to be NOTHING added by any man. NO MORE PROPHESY. I could not stretch it to get it to mean that there will be additional prophesy in future, either written or vocal. someone having a dream does not a prohesy make. In the scriptures, the stories about dreams are parables, It's all one giant parable!
--- Quote ---Aren't both of these references talking about judging someone for sin…and not for establishing doctrine. Doesn't the scripture have to be read in context to make doctrine out of it?
--- End quote ---
I wouldn't have thought so since we are clearly, and on may occasions told to 'JUDGE NOT'
Dee, you keep going on about context, and In every other book on the planet I would agree with you 100% But the truths of scriptures contained in the bible are to be spiritually discerned, we can't do it on our own. Yes, it will seem literal if you can't see anything else. That will only give rise to contradictions though.
You obviously have many questions and issues you would like answers to, and it is great that you do ask them. I have to say that since you seem to want to debate every single word and train of thought, perhaps you need to continue this conversation with someone much more knowledgable than I [I have only been studying the word for about 9 months]
I can only answer you so far at this time and let you know what I know to date [check back in say, 12 years] ;D In the meantime, God would be your best port of call. I hope this doesn't put you off from asking questions and seeking answers [I'm sure it wont, you remind me of a dog with a bone] ;D Lol
I really still have so much to learn and feel I have taken this topic as far as I can with you, and so now bow out to pursue other things. This has been interesting Dee and I thank you so much for taking the time your inpart your thoughts.
God bless you Dee, and may the Lord continue to enlighten you as you search for the truth :)
Angie
angie:
lightseeker
P.S saw this and thought of you! ;D
Col 2: Watch that there not be one robbing you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ.
Take it easy :)
Angie
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