> General Discussions
In the beginning...
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Lightseeker on August 29, 2006, 08:48:44 PM ---Angie,
--- Quote ---3.2 '...we may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden. But the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, ye shall not eat of it, NEITHER SHALL YE TOUCH IT.
--- End quote ---
I once went to a retreat where the speaker used this very verse to declare: "Never depend on a 'secondary word' which hasn't been revealed to you!" His opinion was that Adam had told her what she hadn't heard herself.
--- End quote ---
Hi Dee,
Did the speaker have any scriptural witnesses for his opinion that Adam spoke this first? It seems that this would constitute "a secondary word" wouldn't it?
Thanks,
Joe
angie:
--- Quote ---I once went to a retreat where the speaker used this very verse to declare: "Never depend on a 'secondary word' which hasn't been revealed to you!"
--- End quote ---
Hello Dee
I think we need to listen to secondary words in the process of learning but not depend or act on them until we can check with the source or cross-reference them. This can be difficult when dealing with what dead people supposedly said many years ago. I believe this is what makes the scriptures unique in that we can check with the source since can personally interact with our Father who is the living God and there is no higher authority. Most of us know that it is very easy for some people to read the words, repeat what they were with pinpoint accuracy, and yet still have no clue as to what was really said. If they did, then all would agree, but they don't.
I think you are right in that in that no one individual here on earth has all the answers. I also believe that's why it's great to be able to come to this forum and exchange thoughts, knowledge and ideas. We can then think about and process the information so that we see what God wants us to see at any given moment in our individual lives. I have read stuff here that made no sense to me at the time of reading and then weeks later after much thought, it's like a lightbulb being switched on [literally seeing the light- lol]
Now I'm going to tease you a little bit about this 'retreat' you went to and ask;
was it underground? :D [no offence intended mind]
Angie
YellowStone:
Angie, you have presented an interesting problem.
Did Eve commit the first lie or not. Clearly we must not assume that God never spoke to Eve, or for that matter that God and Adam were not in converse on a regular basis. Genesis was written a long time after the fact, and such happenings may have been deemed irrelevant by God, whom inspired Moses to begin writing ot the creation account. Of this, I do not no other than what was recorded.
But did Eve tell the first lie, or is it the first recored case of Eveusing the intelligence that God gave her. How, many times are children told: "Don't touch the cookies" in direct reference to "Don't EAT the cookies!"? :) So perhaps she added a natural progression.
However, this line of thinking is flawed inasmuch as neither Adam nor Eve were yet laden with Sin. She would have had no reason to lie. Why then would she?
So now we come back to the author, Moses; did he or more likely one of the many translators either drop or add a word or two from the original text?
I am really not comfortable with the idea that by God saying: "though shalt not eat of it: " but left the door open to touching, picking, smelling, licking and possibly using it as a ball in some pre modern-time game of baseball.
I personally woould not lose a lot of sleep over this particular verse, as it does not change the promise of salvation promised us all. But I do degree that the doctrines of Christianity are filled with second words that drasically alter meanings, so to your point, it is a very worthy lessen and I commend you on your post. :)
Also, I to have often thought about how Satan stated: said '...Ye shall not surely die' which, is both a lie and the truth all at once. We are reminded many times in scripture that God see human death as nothing more than sleep.
Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Job 14:13 ¶ O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
Oh, I think he pulled a fast one on Eve, but he "technically" told the truth when viewed through God's eyes.
Such as this has got me to the point where unless a preacher speaks of Love and charity, I am not interested.
Great thread.
Darren
YellowStone:
Well pick me up and knock me down :)
I missed that one Bobby. But my point still remains that we should not be so quick to condem one on the word of another. Are we 100% sure that God did not tell either Adam or Eve not to touch the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge? I don't think the bible told us of dinosaurs either.
Many thanks for your correction Bobby, my brother
Darren
angie:
Hi Darren,
re-reading this thread and the original scripture, I had another thought as I stared at the sentence;
"...but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, though shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
you said that
--- Quote ---...I am really not comfortable with the idea that by God saying: "though shalt not eat of it: " but left the door open to touching, picking, smelling, licking...
--- End quote ---
The tree is NOT good and evil in of itself, it's the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil. We only get the knowledge by experiencing the evil. In this way we can know what good also is. The way I see it at this juncture, either way we die. If we live the evil life in the flesh, we spiritually die and if we live righteously, we die to the flesh.
Your quote about God leaving the door open to touching, picking etc. made me think that, in fact this is what God really does. We touch evil, or it touches us in some way or another all the time, we are said to be 'only evil continually' As far as picking it goes, we could liken that to contemplating or thinking about an action before the actual doing [eating] of it. We might only pick it because we are curious about it [to learn about it] doesn't follow that we will automatically desire to eat it. Am I making any sense? :-\ [or talking complete c**p?] lol ;D
Another way of looking at it is that we can look at good, we can look at evil [or at least the outcome of both] we can be and we can experience it and learn, after that if we continue to live it [evil], knowing it for what it is then we will "...surely Die" [twice!] The tree isn't 2 trees, one each of good and evil, they are in the SAME tree in the SAME garden as the tree of life. Strange how a tree THAT important never got any kind of mention until AFTER the deed was done [the apple eaten] but was lumped [the tree of life] together with the rest of the trees. God never said 'never mind that tree, that ones much better' did He? [unless I missed that bit...Lol] Seems to me anything worthwhile seems to always come along second.
Anyway, I think I'm starting to ramble now and going off what I originally intended so I'm offski for the moment.
Cheers Darren
Angie
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