> General Discussions
In the beginning...
YellowStone:
Angie responded with:
Your quote about God leaving the door open to touching, picking etc. made me think that, in fact this is what God really does. We touch evil, or it touches us in some way or another all the time, we are said to be 'only evil continually' As far as picking it goes, we could liken that to contemplating or thinking about an action before the actual doing [eating] of it. We might only pick it because we are curious about it [to learn about it] doesn't follow that we will automatically desire to eat it.
Very good reasoning. But how much better is ones faith that they can believe on faith (The Word of God) alone, without exploring temptation. We humans seem to be all about tearing down borders and boundries and erasing established lines just to creat new ones. Your reasoning seems to fit very well, although, even though the desire to eat the fruit may not be automatically there, the act would itself seem inevitable. How less the possiblity of sin (if this were possible) by rejecting all temptation?
Angie, I enjoy reading your insight :)
Love to All,
Darren
angie:
Okay,
First, we weren't made NOT to sin, we were made flesh and 'subject to vanity' I quote ray when he said we were made 'sinning machines'. We were supposed to get the knowledge of good and evil, without it, we can't be made into the image of God, so there goes being tempted right out the window.
When Mathew says: '...That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart'
He is in fact talking about the lust part of it, not the looking part, when deciding where about in the proceedings you have committed adultery. It all depends on what you see, then think, once you have already looked. I do this with 'stuff' all the time. I go to the shops, can see something pleasing to the eye, [eye candy] agree that its very nice, go home and never think about it again. Now, were I to go home and sit wondering how I could possibly get it to the point that I thought of very little else, in other words 'lusted after it', then thats the bit that would be the sin. Another way to look at it is, we can agree that a simple wee bumble-bee is a beautiful sight, but would I want one in my house? No thanks! Yet the way they go around contrary to all the laws of physics intrigues me.
We are 'in the midst' of temptation all the time, certainly we can remove ourselves from it, but doesn't that only serve to tell us how weak we are? what else would we learn? How would we learn to overcome? We can resist temptation, but not by ourselves, but by having Jesus in us and us in Him - no other way round this.
We need the first part [the physical] to get to the second part[the spiritual]
It's after that, after we have experienced evil, know how it is different from good and have learned, that we move on to spiritual maturity if called by God to do so. I do believe things through faith now, that I hope will turn out to be true. God through Jesus gives us this Hope. I also know a lot of [though not all] that which is false and evil through experience
I didn't know or believe I was in the dark, till I walked in the light. Now I do know an believe it
I will now go and look up all the scriptures to add in to all of this so as to add to my own learning. I know roughly where they are and the words. :-\ This is just my understanding of them [so far] please bear with this wee learner! ;D
Angie
orion77:
Good point, Angie.
The wages of sin is death, has been twisted around to mean something totally untrue nowadays. A little leaven, clouds without water, spotted leopards, and many other pictures God shows us, to beware and watch, for they mix a little truth with lies.
Interesting discussion.
God bless,
Gary
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: angie on August 30, 2006, 11:13:45 AM ---Okay,
First, we weren't made NOT to sin, we were made flesh and 'subject to vanity' I quote ray when he said we were made 'sinning machines'. We were supposed to get the knowledge of good and evil, without it, we can't be made into the image of God, so there goes being tempted right out the window.
When Mathew says: '...That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart'
He is in fact talking about the lust part of it, not the looking part, when deciding where about in the proceedings you have committed adultery. It all depends on what you see, then think, once you have already looked. I do this with 'stuff' all the time. I go to the shops, can see something pleasing to the eye, [eye candy] agree that its very nice, go home and never think about it again. Now, were I to go home and sit wondering how I could possibly get it to the point that I thought of very little else, in other words 'lusted after it', then thats the bit that would be the sin. Another way to look at it is, we can agree that a simple wee bumble-bee is a beautiful sight, but would I want one in my house? No thanks! Yet the way they go around contrary to all the laws of physics intrigues me.
We are 'in the midst' of temptation all the time, certainly we can remove ourselves from it, but doesn't that only serve to tell us how weak we are? what else would we learn? How would we learn to overcome? We can resist temptation, but not by ourselves, but by having Jesus in us and us in Him - no other way round this.
We need the first part [the physical] to get to the second part[the spiritual]
It's after that, after we have experienced evil, know how it is different from good and have learned, that we move on to spiritual maturity if called by God to do so. I do believe things through faith now, that I hope will turn out to be true. God through Jesus gives us this Hope. I also know a lot of [though not all] that which is false and evil through experience
I didn't know or believe I was in the dark, till I walked in the light. Now I do know an believe it
I will now go and look up all the scriptures to add in to all of this so as to add to my own learning. I know roughly where they are and the words. :-\ This is just my understanding of them [so far] please bear with this wee learner! ;D
Angie
--- End quote ---
Greetings Angie
I had planned a day of mental numbness with no serious thought. But Nooooooooo! You have to spoil my plans with these thought provoking gems. I'll get even somehow. ;)
If you mutually fantasize about movie stars while with your spouse are you committing adultery?
Is it possible to commit a sin that isnt a sin through thought? In other words, can you possibly commit adultery without doing so in thought before the action actually takes place? If sin takes place in the mind first, then is it another sin to actually commit the deed?
Is it like two sins to think about stealing then another sin to actual take that pack of gum without paying?
Finally, if sin take place in thoughts of the mind, then is there such a thing as physical sin?
*****************************************************
Adam and Eve
I had been taught as many others that Eve actually ate some physical fruit, an apple to be exact. It wasn't until high school that I realized that the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil were just metaphors. What I have never really been able to answer precisely is this question:
What kind of "fruit" does having a knowledge of good and evil bear? If having this knowledge makes us more like God then why wouldn't we understand agape a lot better than we do?
Now do you see what rattling my cage does? Please be more careful and take pity on this lunatic. :D
Just for today, I am swearing off milk and meat today and turning into a vegetable, I mean vegetarian.
Thanks for the great posts by everone.
feat
buddyjc:
This is a very interesting thread! I used to think that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was some mystical tree with this knowledge embedded in the fruit, but now I realize that the tree was just like any other tree in the garden. The knowledge of good and evil was not 'in' the fruit at all. It was the act of disobedience that taught Adam and Eve the difference between good and evil. This is the same as the Law of Moses. God told the people how NOT to live in order to teach them how to live righteously.
Brian
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