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Conceived again
Kat:
Hi Joe,
This is a good subject to explore.
There is so much to be considered.
Comparing our spiritual conception to that of a baby, it is a process of development, that leads to birth.
When a baby is ready, think how much is gained at actual birth. The whole world is opened up.
Now we can compare this to how much is gained when we have our spiritual eyes opened, the whole spiritual world begins to open up.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him."
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Harryfeat:
Hello Joe,
All is well thank you and I hope the same for you and yours.
Thanks for providing that snippit from Ray. I will try to get to the audio time permitting.
Maybe this is just a carnal sense of ego but I can't get into the being excited about the term reconceived. I guess I really never liked the term conception as applied to a sperm turning an egg into a zygote. It is truly at that point that we become part of the human race and are reformed into a fleshy/spiritual being.
I have always believed that we existed before we were transformed into a human form. The concept that Christ existed prior to becoming man could apply to all of us. Didin't Christ teach us that whatever existed in the mind was real. That we could commit adultery without touching another woman.
When we came into God's thoughts is that the point of conception. The idea of us was conceived in God's thought long before we were turned into these fleshy carnal half breeds.
You talked of being on a journey. When did that journey begin and when does it end. If in the middle of that journey we are no longer and something else is conceived, are we now talking about two journeys.
When does the "I" in the journey end? Being reconceived seems at odds with my sensibilities when considered that it will be I that is ressurrected but in a different form with my fleshy parts shed and my spiritual entact. When Christ arose he was not reconceived, but reformed into spiritual form.
I could go into the analogy of the caterpiller turned chrysalis then butterfly but it just seems inadequate to explain what I am thinking about this whole journey.
Was it Einstein that said that all matter is just some different forms of energy. It seems that we have been conceived only once in God's mind and that whatever form we take throughout our journey, we are still the same entity He conceived.
I am sorry I can't express it any better. I hope you can get an idea of why the word conceived again is not so compelling to me.
Maybe after listening to the tape I will have some different or additional thoughts.
feat
hillsbororiver:
Hello feat,
I can appreciate your feelings, we all come to realizations of different things at different times, we are on His schedule and not ours.
The "pre-existed" theory can be compelling but there is no scriptural authority for it, I have found that speculation and supposition in matters not covered by His Word can lead to the abyss of confusion, I believe when God breathed into Adam after forming him was the beginning of his life not a continuance of his life in another form.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
This seems pretty straight forward, became a living soul.
It is my belief that there is more than enough to try to understand within His written Word without having to go outside of it using our own logic, for me the foundation becomes weaker the further we move away from what is written.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
If I am mistaken and there are scriptural witnesses for this idea please feel free to share them with us.
His Peace and Wisdom to you and yours,
Joe
Harryfeat:
Hello again Joe,
Perhaps I muddied the waters with my opion about pre humanization. The operative word in what I said was that Christ existing before becoming man could apply to all of us. He is the example we follow. I also often wondered also whether Christ had a soul before becoming man. Biut that is another whole subject area. Enough of the speculation though. I don't have any quote from the bible to support my opinion. I was only trying to explain to you why I personally didn't get too excited about the words conceived again. As Bobby says, I can only relate to how the Holy Spirit speaks to me. I hear and understand your words Joe, I just see things a little differently. I don't think the bible is the be all and end all to our search for truth, however I accept the limitations here for it to be the basis for our discussions.
Ignoring any thoughts about preexistence before becoming man and getting a soul, what is your reaction to the rest. If God created us and conceived us as man to be resurrected in spirit , we are still his creation ever chaniging form until He is All in All.
Let me try another example to try to clarify. I see birth and rebirth as a change from one type of life to another. As a baby in the womb we are constantly growing. At birth we are still the same person, we are still the same living soul but we are now separated from our mothers and we are breathing on our own.. Life on earth is still a period of constant change and hopefully growth for us. At the end of this life on earth we will be resurrected into the spiritual life without our flesh and blood bodies. I see it as a rebirth to the next phase of a single journey rather than being conceived again because we are still accountable for all that happened prior to the resurrection. We carry all the baggage from the prior phases.
I didnt mean to get you side tracked. I hope that helps a little more. Thanks again for your continued and edifying input Joe.
It's good to see you back so soon Bobby. It is also great to see you haven't lost your eyes and ears while you were away ;D ;D
feat
Kat:
Hi Bobby,
Glad to see you are staying near :).
I too was concerned about that statement.
The Word, is Christ, in written form.
This verse says it all.
Col 3:16 Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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