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Author Topic: need some insight  (Read 1889 times)

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JCAliveInMe

  • Guest
need some insight
« on: September 23, 2006, 05:07:41 PM »

Hello, I have read, read his writings and haven't been able to find an answer in regard to something that is puzzling me in the Word of God.  Do you have some insight?  Anyone that can refer me to some material I can read, or if you have an answer,  I would really appreciate some help.  First off, I do not believe in the immortality of the soul.  When you die, you are dead until the resurrection.  But,

Mar 12:26  And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
 
Mar 12:27  He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.


It seems that Jesus is saying here that Abraham Isaac and Jacob are not dead.  Now, I know that the Word of God does not contradict itself, but I just can't seem to understand what is being meant in this passage.  Thank you in advance for your time and effort in helping me to understand.
                                                                                                Love in Jesus Christ, Christopher
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Andy_MI

  • Guest
Re: need some insight
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2006, 05:18:39 PM »

Hi Christopher,

I think the key to understanding this is to read eariler in the chapter where you see the topic discussed and who Christ is talking to and why.

Mar 12:18 KJVR
(18)  Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,

Here we see that Christ is addressing the Sadducees and they didn't believe in resurrection. Now if you keep this in view with the rest of the passage you may see that Christ is telling them that there is a resurrection because He's the God of the living and not the dead.

I hope that clears it up for you.

Peace,

Andy
« Last Edit: September 23, 2006, 05:21:17 PM by Andy_MI »
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JCAliveInMe

  • Guest
Re: need some insight
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2006, 05:26:10 PM »

Andy, I really appreciate the time that you took to give a response, but I'm still not getting it.  Yes, I see and understand that Jesus was talking to the Sadducees, who didn't believe in the resurrection.  So in light of that, they believed that Abraham Isaac and Jacob were dead in the grave -right?  And so Jesus, in teaching the resurrection seems to make a statement here as if they were already resurrected.
Mar 12:27  He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Have mercy on me, I'm just not getting it.                         
                                                                   I would appreciate any more help or insight.
                                                                                                                Love in Jesus Christ, Christopher
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Andy_MI

  • Guest
Re: need some insight
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2006, 05:31:31 PM »

Hi Christopher,

Nobody except Christ is resurrected now. What I see it saying is that if there is no resurrection from the dead then the sadducees would be correct and that would make God a God of the dead and not the living. Remember that God is not bound by time and space. He's sees the beginning from the end. He speaks of things that aren't as though they are.

Notice this verse closely,

Mar 12:26 KJVR
(26)  And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

The dead rise because He's the God of the living not the dead. He's the giver of life.


Joh 11:25 KJVR
(25)  Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:


I hope this helps,

Andy
« Last Edit: September 23, 2006, 05:54:44 PM by Andy_MI »
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buddyjc

  • Guest
Re: need some insight
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2006, 09:06:56 PM »

You are correct Andy.  The context of this statement by Christ concerns the resurrection.

Brian
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orion77

  • Guest
Re: need some insight
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2006, 10:30:22 AM »

(Rom 8:10 LITV)  But if Christ is in you, the body indeed is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

(Rom 8:11 LITV)  But if the Spirit of the One having raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One having raised the Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies live through the indwelling of His Spirit in you.

(Rom 8:12 LITV)  So, then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to flesh,

(Rom 8:13 LITV)  for if you live according to flesh, you are going to die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live.

(Rom 8:14 LITV)  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Notice in the 11th verse, it states our 'mortal bodies' are made alive by His Spirit in us. 


(Joh 11:25 LITV)  Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life. The one believing into Me, though he die, he shall live.

(Phi 3:8 LITV)  But, no, rather I also count all things to be loss because of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them to be trash, that I might gain Christ

(Phi 3:9 LITV)  and be found in Him; not having my own righteousness of Law, but through the faith of Christ, having the righteousness of God on faith,

(Phi 3:10 LITV)  to know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, having been conformed to His death,

(Phi 3:11 LITV)  if somehow I may attain to a resurrection out of the dead.

(Phi 3:12 LITV)  Not that I already received or already have been perfected, but I press on, if I also may lay hold, inasmuch as I also was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.


I think this is a good question brought up, because what does it mean when we are baptized unto His death and raised to His life by His Spirit being in us?

Is it believing in faith, not that it has happened, yet the words, 'its no longer I who live, but Him who is in me.'

(Gal 2:20 LITV)  I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, the One loving me and giving Himself over on my behalf.

(Rom 4:17 LITV)  according as it has been written, "I have appointed you a father of many nations;" before God, whom he believed, the One making the dead live, and calling the things that are not as if they were. Gen. 17:5

Could it be, that by faith through calling the things that are not as if they were, with Christs Spirit being in us, who is the resurrection, we have that hope.

Just a thought for discussion.

God bless,

Gary
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buddyjc

  • Guest
Re: need some insight
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2006, 12:37:31 PM »

Sure, we are to live our lives as if we have already been resurrected.

Rom 6:4  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 6:8  Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Rom 6:9  Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.


Rom 6:10  For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Now concerning these Sadducees in the Mark passage. 

Mar 12:18  Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; [This is why the Sadducees are 'sad--u--see'] and they asked him, saying,

Mar 12:23  In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.

Mar 12:24  And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Mar 12:25  For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. [/color]

Mar 12:26  And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Mar 12:27  He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.


The 'physical' resurrection is in view in this passage. 

Brian
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: need some insight
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2006, 12:52:43 PM »

Hi Brian,

That is the way I am seeing this, too.

If you look at the context, that this scripture is taken from,
you can see that the Sadducees ask Jesus a question about the resurrection,
that they did not believe in, and were trying to trip Him up with this story question.

Mar 12:18  The Sadducees did not believe that people would rise to life after death. So some of them came to Jesus and said:

What Jesus said to them is when God raises people to life.

Mar 12:24  Jesus answered: You are completely wrong! You don't know what the Scriptures teach. And you don't know anything about the power of God.
Mar 12:25  When God raises people to life, they won't marry. They will be like the angels in heaven.

Now Jesus is saying, sense Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are already dead,
but He says I am their God, so He knows they will be in a resurrection.
But when will they be raised, in a resurrection to come.

Mar 12:26  And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?
Mar 12:27  He is not God of the dead, but of the living. You are quite wrong."

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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orion77

  • Guest
Re: need some insight
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2006, 03:35:06 PM »

I appreciate your responses, Brian and Kat.  Thanks for clearing it up for me.

God bless,

Gary

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