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Author Topic: where is this found?  (Read 1962 times)

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a_child_of_God

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where is this found?
« on: October 07, 2006, 10:55:23 PM »

I don't know if this is in the right area of the forum, but I would like some help with something. I was listening to one of Mike's Bible Studies on my iPod (i have nothing but Bible Studies on it) and he mentioned a scripture verse, but my brain did not register what the reference was. It's the verse that basically says that God gave us the experience of evil to humble us. The reason I want to know where that verse is, is because I was talking to a friend last night, and I showed her Isaiah 45:7. She is having some marital problems with her husband.

If someone could help me, I would greatly appreciate it.

Love in Christ,
Ruth
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prarrydog

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Re: where is this found?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2006, 02:51:44 AM »


Ecc 1:13  And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.

Ecc 3:10  I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.

Ray also speaks of this in http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html

Here is an exerpt:

THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH GOD CREATED EVIL

This is all the strange work of God. There is no free will about it. We are all born out of a dark womb into the natural light of day, but this too is but a parable. We must be “born again” out of spiritual darkness of this age into the glorious light of the Sun of God. It is a painful journey, and requires an experience of evil to accomplish.

    “And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail has God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith”  (Ecclesiastes 1:13).

What a horrible translation! My King James has three superior numbers in this one verse indicating three different words in the margin. Especially the last phrase:

    “…this sore travail has God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.”

What pray tell does that mean? One of the most all-encompassing and profound verses in all Scripture, and most translations butcher it beyond understanding.

    NEW AMERICAN BIBLE: “A thankless task God has appointed for men to be busied about.”

    JEWISH PUBLICATION SOCIETY: “…it is a sore task that God has given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.”

    NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION:   “What a heavy burden God has laid on men!”

    YOUNG’S LITERAL TRANSLATION: “It is a sad travail God has given to the son of man to be humbled by it.”

This is really an important verse; we have got to get it right. Young’s Translation gets a little closer to the truth than the KJV or the previous three references. He got the humbled part right. But what is all this “sad travail,” “heavy burden,” “thankless task,” business all about? It is not that difficult if we will just look at the Hebrew words:

Ecc. 1:13 from the King James:

First, the word “this” may be better translated “it,” as some have done.

But far, far more important than all, the word “sore” should be translated “EVIL” as almost none have done. It is the Hebrew word ra which always means “EVIL,” and is translated as “evil” in hundreds and hundreds of other verses. Why not in this verse? The few times that ra is translated “sore” in the KJV, it ALWAYS means “evil” as in “evil sickness” or “evil troubles.”

The word “travail” in the KJV is not out of line with the Hebrew, but is nebulous and not easily understood by most. It would better translated as “employment” or “experience.”

And we have already seen from other versions that the KJV “exercised” is better translated “humbled” as Young’s and Concordant has done.

Here then is a proper translation of this most profound verse:

    “It is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it” (Concorant Old Testament).

Now we can easily understand what is being said in this verse.

This “experience of evil” is not the purpose or goal of human existence, but this is indeed the process by which God is bringing His Sons and Daughters into glory! Most translations have hidden the meaning of this verse of Scripture. The translations just couldn’t believe that God would do such a thing. They see it all around them. They see it in thousands of Scriptures, but they just couldn’t bring themselves to come right out and say it, as God obviously has stated in the original Hebrew of this verse.

    “It is an EXPERIENCE of EVIL that God has given to the sons of humanity to HUMBLE them by it.”

And to this agrees the rest of Scripture:

    “For ALL his days are SORROWS, and his travail [experience] GRIEF…”  (Ecc. 2:23).

The destiny of the human race is indeed GLORIOUS, but the journey is filled with evil and sorrow. This not to say that there are not many beautiful and good things in life, but for most the misery far far outweighs the pleasurable.

Do not be deceived: when Jesus said—“…I am come that they might have life and that they might have it more abundantly” (John 10:10), He was surely not speaking about this life, now, in the flesh! Contrary to the evil teachings of prosperity ministers, Jesus never promised us LARGER HOMES AND GREATER MATERIAL POSSESSIONS after we start following in His steps.

Jesus said that if we leave our parents, families, houses and possessions for His sake that we would receive a hundred fold of parents, families, houses and possessions NOW. But He was not speaking of receiving back NOW, these same PHYSICAL parents, families, and possessions, but rather the families and possessions we would receive NOW would be SPIRITUAL.

Does anyone really believe that if we leave our PHYSICAL PARENTS that He will give us another, different set of PHYSICAL PARENTS?   Well, yes, I guess there are those who are so spiritually ignorant that they might really believe that they will receive a brand new set of BIRTHING PARENTS to take the place of the ones they left.  However, the truth is: “…the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT…” (John 6:63).

With love
Scott

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a_child_of_God

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Re: where is this found?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2006, 05:18:59 AM »

Thank you Scott!!! You are a big help to me.

Love in Christ,
Ruth
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: where is this found?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2006, 10:03:39 AM »

Hi Scott

I neaded to re-read this message from the Myth of Free Will part C again because I was beginning to see too much darkness and not enough light. I am grateful that I  was lead to receive the wisdom and understanding  of knowing that God knows what and how to get His will and plan done HIS way....AND that He shares HIS mystery with us.  It is a great comfort!

Arcturus :)
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ciy

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Re: where is this found?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2006, 12:36:43 PM »

Also add on Deuteronomy 8:2

ciy
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: where is this found?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2006, 07:35:21 PM »

Ciy

Amen!...for me Deut 8:2 expresses that....HE shall make us remember...HE shall humble us and finally HE shall be our blessing....!

Arcturus :)
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