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23 minutes in hell
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Eggi
I hear where you are coming from....The doctrine of backsliding is terrifying...like the pagan teaching on eternal Hell which is Heresy.
I found these scriptures that I hope will encourage and comfort you..
1 John 2 : 27...But as for you, the anointing, the sacred appointment, the unction which you received from Him abides PERMANENTLY in you....
Heb 6 : 19 Now we have this hope as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, it cannot slip and it cannot break down under whoever steps out upon it - a hope that reaches farther and enters into the very certainty of the Presence within the veil. 20 Where Jesus has entered in for us in advance....
Heb 6 : 11...show the same diligence and sincerity in realizing and enjoying the full assurance and development of your hope until the end...
Paul was persuaded beyond doubt and was sure that Rom 8 :38...neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities, nor thing impending and threatening nor things to come, nor poweres, 39 Nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able toseparate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
and in Gal 2 : 20 Paul tell us by what faith he lives by....."I live by the faith OF the Son of God...." and we all know the faith of the Son of God was prooved faithful unto death.....we are still being trained tried and tested!..... :D
Arcturus :)...in training
eggi:
Thanks again for your encouragement, Arcturus!
I am confident in this:
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. (Phi 1:6)
Nevertheless I have to be increasing in knowledge:
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God. (Col 1:10)
We both have to trust in God, God is working, not us, but also we have to be vigilant. I think these three verses by Peter say a lot, and they are pretty closely tied to each other:
Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: (1Pe 5:6-8)
I see that just about everyone agrees that "in the body/out of the body" refers to the magnitude of the vision, but what do you think about Bill Wise's experience. Was he really in hell, or did "an evil spirit from the Lord come and trouble him"?
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. (1Sa 16:14)
I'm thinking that Wise's experience was a totally pagan incident, much like the trances of shamans who "go to other spiritual dimensions". I have a hard time thinking that Paul is referring to an epileptic "shaking on the floor and screaming" experience. Any thoughts?
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Eggi
Great post!
....You ask me "Was he (Bill) really in hell, or did "an evil spirit from the Lord come and trouble him"?
What I can share I have learnt here at Bible Truths so all credit and thanks to God through RAY.....
As far as I know...there is NO Pagan Hell....but there is a Lake of Fire that is not eternal....You will find this revelation in the extraordinary Lake of Fire Series that Ray has been guided by Gods love and grace to reveal to us...
Now as for Bill....I accept that Bill experienced what he experienced but that is the END OF IT. I do NOT accept BILL's interpretation or his understanding of HIS OWN experience and neither do I agree that he should be building his house upon his understanding or on his experience, interpretation of his experience or understanding of it because there is NO Scripture to back up what he is preaching....I think he is building his house on sand!....
Those who are doing the opposite are as described:
Eph 2:20 You are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Christ Jesus Himself the chief Cornerstone
1 Tim 6:19 In this way laying up for themselves the riches that endure forever as a good foundation for the future, so that they may grasp that which is life indeed.
2 Tim 2:19 But the firm foundation of God stands, sure and unshaken, bearing this seal; The Lord knows those who are His, and, Let everyone who names himself by the name of the Lord, give up all iniquity and stand aloof from it....
Matt 12 : 34...Out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks...
So for me personally Eggi....if they are preaching Hell then they are full of it!..... I stand separate......not of my own works, understanding, intelligence or wisdom... but by Gods grace mercy and unmeritted favor! HE has edified me...least I should boast!
So I do not for a minute deny that we can have VISIONS of Hell like torture chambers but just because we can have visions, it does not mean these images are NOT visions or that they are real live places where sinners are destined to end up because of a hateful God that the Church of Mystery Babylon will not give up teaching!.....
Matt 17: 3,9...And behold there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him....9 And as they came down from the mountain Jesus charged them saying, Tell the VISION, to no man....
This point is covered by Ray through his LOF Series. In Rays Lazarus and the Rich Man, Ray points out that Jesus said in John 3:13 NO MAN has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven....
I enjoy Col 2:18...Let no one defraud you by acting as an umpire and declaring you unworthy and disqualifying you for the prize, insisting on self-abasement and worship ofangels, taking his sand on VISIONS....(on WHAT?...VISIONS)...he claims he has seen, vainly puffed up by his sensuous notions and inflated by his unspiritual thoughts and fleshly conceit."
It is amaizing that this subject has been posted. Just last week I was invited to go and hear out a person who had been in a coma for 40 days and was teaching and preaching about the so called reality of Hell.. He had given up his job to promote his book on the subject!....I gave that meeting a miss ;D.....Next time I may attend and that sure will open the gates of persecution!.....I am getting ready and not looking for persecution... but I know it will come sooner or later....For now I am studying, studying, studying by Gods grace!...and in HIS TIME! I am not looking to test MY SKILLS or proove MYSELF... MAY GOD FORBID!...God's Spirit alone tests the reigns of my heart....
Hope this has blessed you.....
Arcturus :).... in training
eggi:
Again thanks for your reply!
I asked the question in a provocative way, I too do not believe in the existence of hell (although I did), it was all burned out of me as I read the entire Lake of Fire series. The moment when I finally realised that the god that I knew was no more, was really an "in the body/out of the body" experience. I felt God's Love like no time before. It was really beyond comprehension!
I agree with you, I believe Wise to have had this experience, but I do NOT believe him when he says that he was "out of his body" IN HELL. "The Lord took me to hell", he says. All of the different insanse descriptions are either part of his imagination or a mental disease (really a demon). Either way it's a demon and evil spirit! Like you said: "if they are preaching Hell then they are full of it".
As to confronting and exposing those who contradict, I'm trying to be humble about this. I trust that God is telling me when to witness against someone, and when not to do it. It's important like you say to study and be patient, and "go into Arabia" and "spend three years in Damascus":
But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother's womb, and called me through his grace,
to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood:
neither went I up to Jerusalem to them that were apostles before me: but I went away into Arabia; and again I returned unto Damascus.
Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and tarried with him fifteen days. (Gal 1:15-18 ASV)
God be with you as you study!
Eirik
buddyjc:
Hi Eirik,
Ray actually comments on this passage concerning Paul in the 'third heaven.' Here is the link.
http://bible-truths.com/splinter.html
His comments begin under the heading 'Transcendence vs. Inordinately.'
Brian
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