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BACKSLIDING
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Kat
I was hoping to see you on this thread....
You make a valid point....NO ONE had been given the Spirit at that time.....The Spirit came UPON some of them...Elisha and the robe of Elija in symbolic reference UPON not WITHIN as you point out in Col 1 :27..."Christ lives IN you"
The Chosen are by election by God....Marie posted a very good slant on this I have still to ponder....Ref SLAVES TO SIN...General Discussions.
What Joe writes is begging the question....Are the OT Prophets the Servants and the NT faithful the SONS. I say yes...am looking for the second witness.....am hoping Gary will come up with something good as well as others who will be thinking about this subject.....
Thanks for your contribution
Arcturus :)
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Brian
Good news....in fact great news :D...we do not all have to go through the second death which is the Lake of Fire. Some of us are going through the salting of fire NOW and will miss the second time around ;D I am praying that I am in that category! ;D :D ie NOT in the second time round.
Jesus advised us all to ask and pray that we Luke21:36..Keep awake....watch at all times and pray that you may be ACCOUNTED WORHTY....to stand in the presence of the Son of Man"
I take this to mean...Judas will fall on his face when he sees his Lord full of Glory...I do not think he will be able to stand up straight he will be so overwhelmed to see Jesus as King and ALIVE and well!.....Imagine it! I think Judas will be totally on his face!...mumbling through tears...I thought you were dead....I thought I was guilty....HOW can YOU possibly forgive me! OH...what... YOU ALREADY DID!...Sob sob sob and big big tears of overwrought emotion I imagine will be hitting Judas when he wakes up agian ;D
For me the question has been, Salting of fire NOW or Lake of Fire latter?....I have been neutral on this question....Who wants pain now? So, due to your post I can now place on record.. may God's Will be done which will be done anyway the only difference now with me is that I agree, I surrender, and I know that I haven't a clue what lies ahead that I am agreeing to now... I hope it is only tiny flecks of microscopic salt of fire now rather than a HUGE lake later! There I am on record! I have been dodging this and where do I stand? pressure to reply, for a few weeks now with even knowing what Jesus says in the Scripture...Pray Now that you will be accounted worthy to stand later!...
I believe that part of being human is experiencing that GOD can take me through ANYTHING!....Well here goes..... Note. This is not a challenge to God....just a very shy squeek.....a very small and maybe most unwise squeek.....I am not trying to get up in rank and file into Gods Kingdom. I just want to bypass the Lake....know God better and live a life in the fullness of the faith OF Christ.....in Him as Gods scriptures point out.....Yes I desire that!....YES!
Has anyone else felt this pressure to choose....pain now or later?...I know I do not choose...God designed my choice and knew before I did what I would decide!....There...I am grateful to God for this but still feel a little uncertain about just how much purification lies ahead!...Feels like I am on my way to Calvery!....Is there anyone out there who knows this place I am in?.....
I think I know what you mean....first death in Adam....second death the carnality of flesh.... That would make the lake of fire the third death if I get your drift Brian..... ??? I perfer to keep things simple though!....First death, ...Christ crusified....Second death....you don't want to be there!
Arcturus :)
Kat:
Hi Arcturus,
I have been rereading Ray's article 'Exposing the Secret Rapture, and this what Ray says.
http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm ----------------------------
Furthermore, it may be deduced that the dead and the living are raised and honored together if we look very carefully at Rev. 11:15-18. The seventh and last trumpet (verse 15) trumpets and God’s indignation arrives (Ver. 18) and it is the time to: "... give their wages to Thy slaves, the prophets ..." I believe we would have to concede that these include the prophets of old who have long been put to repose. So then, these prophets would be rising from the dead along with the living being gathered to Christ at this seventh and last trump, "... in the presence of our Lord Jesus with all His saints" (I Thes. 3:13). Lk. 13:28-30 also confirms the fact that, "... whenever you should be seeing Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and ALL the prophets in the kingdom of God ..."
I am certainly not claiming this as a major proof, only as a possibility. Even if these "lamenting and gnashing their teeth" are those not raised until the great white throne of judging, the indication is that these prophets will already be "in the kingdom of God" (Ver 28).
As to the statement that the gathering of Christ’s elect in Matt 24 is only the living, I will suggest that it doesn’t say living or dead. However, the word "elect" by itself certainly can include the dead, but I know of no law of grammar that could make the word "elect," exclude the dead. These references regarding the gathering of Christ’s elect do no state specifically whether any of them are alive or dead. However, as Rev. 11:18 includes both the "small and great," and particularly "the prophets," and "the saints," it would have to include BOTH. The "prophets" have mostly died many centuries ago (yet they will be gathered here), and the "saints" include both dead and many saints who will be alive at Christ’s coming. So clearly, both (the living and the dead), are included in the same event.
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I am still studying this subect.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Kat
Thank you for sharing.
That makes absolute sence to me. Yes I agree!
That is what the Scripture says...Yes!
...and only God will know who He calls/draggs. As I understand...Only Jesus knows His own...not even Paul took for granted that He belonged.....
I quote Ray...Jesus knows who are His. We don't. We hope. We believe...He has not told any of us for an absolute certainty that we will not fall or fail. There are those whom God will predestine to start out doing His will but who will be predestined before the end of their lives to fail. That is why God has given us such Scriptures as Heb 10 : 26-29 and 1 Cor 9 :27.....unquote
So backsliding is predestined....what do you think?..in as much as God does not MAKE us backslide...we volunteer to!...HE knows who will backslide and who won't backslide because HE CAUSES our outcomes and we volunteer our direction. ???.. I know for sure that God alone changes us and HE alone is able to make all grace abound towards us 2 Cor 9 : 8 And God is able to make all grace, every favor and earthly blessing come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need be self-sufficient, possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation) AMPL....am sure that there are better translations!..but this makes the point....GOD IS ABLE we are UNable....!
Arcturus :)...in learning :D..and back to the drawing board for me ::) to re-study the Myths of free will!..We SIN VOLUNTARILY..DO WE ALSO BACKSLIDE VOLUNTARILY???????? ???
orion77:
Hello Arcturus,
For me, I cannot say who will or will not partake of the second death, be in the lake of fire. I will leave that to the righteous judge, seeing He knows the intent of our hearts and minds.
Judas was of the mindset of having a earthly reign of Christ, purely carnal not seeing the inner spiritual truths that are hidden from the world. And it is widely accepted today of those waiting for a earthly reign, not seeing that He reigns in the hearts and minds of mankind, a Spiritual kingdom.
If that is all Christ is, a physical King, that would not be much of a purpose for God. He would just come here and whip all of our hides and be done with it, take control and force His rules upon us. His kingdom is far greater, a spiritual kingdom through an inner creation molding us into His own character. Now, that is a huge undertaking that far surpasses our understanding, yet His ways are higher than ours. Conquering the hearts and minds of mankind, now that truly takes a King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
When God does something, it will not return to Him void. What is the greatest gift He has given us? You are right in saying 'faith', and it is more than just knowing that He is the Christ. Judas knew that, the devil knows it, and the vast majority knows it. So, what is this faith so preciously given to us, that He would go so far to humble Himself to the flesh, to show us the Way through many miracles and the suffering He bore on the cross? This is a question that we all need to search for, seeing that God loves us that much, He deserves it.
Faith is like a seed, and as any farmer knows, one cannot plant a green seed, it must be dead to produce a harvest. Here is the importance of growing from knowing Him crucified to being crucified with Christ. Now, that seed will grow and produce good fruit. That seed and fruit must be protected and cultivated, if not the weeds will take it over and become worthless. Faith without works is dead. That faith given is tested through many trials and tribulations. God is working in the obedient followers of Christ. We are very blessed and privledged to suffer for His namesake. We are in good company.
(Psa 80:14 LITV) O God of Hosts, we beg You, return! Look down from Heaven and see and visit this vine,
(Psa 80:15 LITV) and the vineyard which Your right hand has planted, and on the son You made strong for Yourself.
(Psa 80:16 LITV) It is burned with fire, cut down; they perish at the rebuke of Your face.
(Psa 80:17 LITV) Let Your hand be on the man of Your right hand; on the son of man whom You have made strong for Yourself.
(Psa 80:18 LITV) So we will not backslide from You; make us live, and we will call on Your name.
(Psa 80:19 LITV) O Jehovah, God of Hosts, turn us again! Cause Your face to shine, and we will be saved.
God bless,
Gary
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