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Our Path and God's Sovereignty
YellowStone:
Sansmile, :)
It makes perfect sense. Your analogy wonderful, for as loving parents we are teaching respondsibility. Surely, our Father, is allowing us to learn in the same way. :)
Love to you,
Darren
longhorn:
Quote "I do not accept that God makes me do everything, because if that is true, then Satan is of no consequence and life has no meaning."
Yellowstone, Please tell my ex-wife that.
Longhorn
YellowStone:
FYI,
Ray very kindly responded to my email. Here is what he said
Dear Darren:
I don't recall ever using the word "BLAMING" God for anything. Suggesting that if man does not have "free will," it somehow limis God's "creative ability," is highly inflamitory. You might just as well suggest that since nature and providence is filled with such things as floods, hurricanes, tornados, volcanos, forest fires, tsunamis, and earthquakes are proof that God cannot even create this earth without obvious flaws and mistakes. Maybe that is because God did create it perfect, but that nature also has "free will," and therefore is another uncontrollable renegate in God's creation. What do you think? The problem is that most people DON'T THINK, and that is why the Truths of God are such enigmas to more of humanity and especially the Church.
I have written about 120 pages on exposing "The Myth of Free Will." It is found in my "Lake of Fire" series on our home page. Either man does not have a free will and God is Sovereign, OR, man has a free will and God is NOT Sovereign. They cannot both be true, as "Free will of man" and "the Sovereignty of God" are absolute contradictions. This is not an easy subject for most to comprehend, but with much meditation, study of the Scriptures, and a revelation from God's spirit, it can easily be understood.
God be with you,
Ray
Dear Ray,
I pray that you able to shed some light on the topic Blaming GOD for everything, and whether or not God has the creative ability to create man who can think and act on his (mans) own accord,
This subject has proven to be a major stumbling block, and I am not seeking to cause trouble, but rather continue growing in truth.
Brothers in Christ,
Darren
YellowStone:
Still feeling as if my question missed the mark, I sent him another.
I would very much like to hear any comments thst sny of you might have on what I asked below.
Please share your thoughts as I need help. I truly believe that God has me on the right track.
With much love,
Darren
Dear Ray,
Thank you so much for your response. Let us for a moment drop the freewill concept, because I do not think that this is where the issue lies.
Is it your understanding that man has the ability to think, speak, feel, love or hate on his/her own accord?
Or do you believe that the life of man is no more than sound from a CD player; noteing that nothing other than the sound that is pre-recorded digitally will ever (ignoring scratches) be produced. If this is true, then are we no more than droids. Of what use is waking up in the morning; why "try" to live according to God's will; because if we are incapable of free thought and free emotions because we are so "locked" into our predestined tracks, we cannot learn of our own accord and it is senseless trying. Simply because if God wants us to learn we will.
We are instructed to study God's word; why?
You mention nature; and how God made it perfect, and clearly it is not. But by whose eyes are we judging perfection; ours or Gods. I am sure you have heard of "cause and effect" Picture please for a moment, millions of dominoes painstakenly setup in the most beautiful awe-inspiring arrangement. What does it take to destroy this arrangement? Well if the first domino is pushed in order to knock the second over; the remainder will fall. Destruction is inevitable.
Who is making them fall? Is God, one domino at a time causing it to fall at the exact point of time, or rather are the dominoes falling in perfect sequence because of the wondererous God given laws of physics, etc that controls our life as we know it.
Please Ray, do not think for a moment that I think that I am not bound by God; but do you really think that God can not know the future of all of us, in the same manner as the person who pushes the first domino knows when the last one will fall, based on the wonderful laws that God has put in place. Domino# 876,875,231 is pushed in the back and falls forward, knocking another domino, even we can know the exact time and place, because God has given us such a perfect universe.
Is such an example outside the confines of Romans 1:20.
For whatever reason, our entire universe operates on this same premise. We are because God allows us to be, of this there is no question.
So in closing, are the many thoughts inside my head put there by God, or rather are they my thoughts because God has allowed me to think and sometimes hit's me over the head because my thinking drifts away from the prize. Has he allowed me to see him and know him through creation, or are we mindless puppets, incapable of anything unless our strings are pulled. Does are hair on my head wave in the wind because God is "making" it or does it wave because of "cause and effect" based on the laws of physics of God's wonderful creation
If I cannot think, then I cannot fail. I therefore am perfect as a digital CD because God recorded it, why then strive for anything?
Ray, I think a lot :)
I really believe that this is my question the best way I know how to ask it.,
With much Love,
Darren
Kat:
Hi Darren,
I seem to have a nack, for posting difficult subjects :-\
Hopefully we will all learn something from this discussion.
I've found more on this subject in Ray's letter to Kennedy,
I think it speaks to your question to him.
http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm -----------------------------------
Theologians view the Scriptures in the same way little children view a marionette show. Like little children, they suppose that the marionettes are "truth." They suppose that what they see is the absolute truth. These marionettes really do walk and talk "by themselves;" they really do sing and dance "by themselves." Certainly to the immature and the uninitiated, they have that power within themselves. But, they haven't a clue as to what is happening behind the curtain. They haven't a clue as to how these little marionettes do what they do! They haven't even considered that there may be a higher power "operating" these marionettes.
In this, theologians are like little children. Theologians don't want to know what's going on behind the curtain. They are perfectly happy in their ignorance. They are entertained by their own false delusions, and ever so proud of their independence from God!
And why is it that little children are deceived by marionettes' lifelike behavior? Because the strings are very thin and the operators are hid behind the curtain. They can see them perform with their own eyes. They can hear them singing with their own ears. Surely that is proof enough for a little child. And what more proof do you have that humans "perform" independent from the One Who is operating all (Eph. 11:1)? None. God doesn't need thinner strings to fool us-God operates by Spirit. God doesn't need to hide behind a curtain-God is invisible (II Cor. 4:4).
Just as surely as children are fooled into believing that marionettes perform by their own powers, theologians and the wise of this world are fooled into thinking that man too can operate, in and by himself, independently of his own Creator.
Theologians teach this falsehood because they live by sight not by faith. Like little children, they don't perceive any strings nor the Operator, which are both invisible. So with them, as with children, they assume there are no operating forces in their lives-they are "free." Hence they refuse to believe even the Scriptural declarations that God is Operating all according to the counsel of His own will (Eph. 11:1), and that apart from Christ they can do nothing (Jn 15:5).
We are witnessing a worldwide Christian movement where the blind are leading the blind. They are like a Hollywood horror film where renegade marionettes band together and try to cut off the controlling strings, never to be operated against their wills by their Creator again. They want to have powers beyond what their Maker built into them. Everyone wants to be a Potter, when in reality, he is just a pot. "And now, Lord, Thou art our Father. And we are the clay. Thou art our Former, and the doing of Thy hand are we all" (Isa. 64:8).
Someone might retort: "Mr. Smith, are you saying that I can't even move my little finger unless it is God's intention that I do so?"
That is exactly what I am saying. Because that is exactly what God is saying: " ... not far from each one of us is He [God] inherent, for in Him we are living and moving [our little finger] and are [exist] ... " (Acts 17:28). I'm sorry that there are people who are not happy with this arrangement; I am. It gives me confidence and hope to know that God is controlling everything to a perfect conclusion. Man only thinks he has independent free will from God, and look where this world is headed. Imagine the state of affairs if man actually did have free will.
Free will or independence from our Creator God is just an illusion. It is, nonetheless, a marvelous illusion. The genius of God is overwhelming. It is this very illusion that enables mankind to actually believe he is the master of his own fate. And God helps bolster this illusion by actually giving men a certain amount of success in their quest for power, fame, and fortune. But just like the King of Assyria, Pharaoh, and others, all, one day, will realize and appreciate the fact that it was God " ... operating all ... "
These inspired words of the Apostle Paul are so clear that one has to be downright stubborn as to the truth, not to believe them:
"Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening. You will be protesting to me, then, 'Why, then, is He [God] still blaming? for who has withstood His intention?' O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded will not protest to the molder, 'Why do you make me thus?' Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?" (Rom. 9:18-21)
God said He raised Pharaoh up for the express purpose of displaying His power in him (Ver. 17). It is an historical and Scriptural fact that God did this to Pharaoh. Ver. 18 then states that, consequently then, God is either "merciful," or "hardens" anyone He wants to. And whosoever they are have nothing to say about God's doing so.
Well, of course, if one is hostile against God and His word, his retort to this statement of Paul's would then be:
"WHY, THEN, IS HE STILL BLAMING?" (Ver. 19)
How can God hold people accountable for their sins when it was "He" [God] who brought about their condition? At least Paul's detractors had the sense to realize that if what Paul was saying is true, then they are solely at God's mercy (not their own ability) to ever change their condition, because their next statement is:
" ... for who has WITHSTOOD HIS INTENTION?" (Ver. 19).
God intends for men to go against His will (that's how men become lost so that God can then save them), but no one, absolutely NO ONE, has ever gone against God's INTENTION! Hey, don't get angry with me - I'm just quoting the Scriptures.
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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