> General Discussions
Our Path and God's Sovereignty
Prosizz:
Darren,
There was a discussion recently initiated by Arcturus on the subject: Relative vs Aboslute. I beleive a revisit to that may help us a bit in coming to term with this posting.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2319.0.html
Kat:
Hi Arcturus,
Very good post.
The story of Nebuchadnezzar,
was a really good application, for no free will.
You have brought some very compelling scripture out,
I really like this one in Proverbs.
Pro 3:26 For the Lord shall be your confidence….
MG,
God has given you a great witness of Him,
after all you have been through, your example of praising God is an inspiration.
You and your family are in my prayers.
Hi Darren,
I will keep finding excerpts of Ray's for you, if it is helping.
I would rather use his articles,
because he has spent so much time researching and writing them up.
He has so much info. availible and much more knowledge on these things then I.
http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html -------------------------------------------
If people could only see that God is not a carnal-minded human as themselves. He is GOD -- The Great Creator, Sustainer, and Saviour of all -- GOD! God has a plan, a procedure, and a purpose for this creation. Precious few have even a basic understanding of what it is. Nothing in creation is out of control from God’s perspective. Nothing ever surprises God or catches Him off guard. God does not view the activity of His creation from His celestial vantage point unaware of what people will do next. God knows all in advance. God doesn’t just know what "will" happen in the future, He causes all that will happen in the future. God IS the future. God is the Alpha and the Omega -- He IS the beginning; He IS the end, and nothing can be different from what God says MUST BE.
We have got to get away from the "God allows certain things" mentality and syndrome. God CREATES, God DESTROYS, God HEALS, God KILLS, God CAUSES, God BRINGS ABOUT. God SAVES. God does not "allow" things that He has not foreordained to be! This popular doctrine among the religions of the world is utter unscriptural foolishness. The teaching suggests that man does things that God had no previous knowledge of, does not approve of, wishes would have never happened, but nonetheless, He "allows" them. Certainly He "allows" them in as much as He does not "disallow" them, but this still begs the question as to their true origin. God is the Creator, not Satan.
"For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are all things: to Whom be glory for ever. Amen" (KJV Rom. 11:36).
"Seeing that OUT of Him and THROUGH Him and FOR Him is all..." (Concordant Version).
Does this also include EVIL?
"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me, I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS" (Isaiah 45:6-7).
There are many many things in life that are very hard to accept and deal with in our weakened spiritual state. I cannot, after all this time, get the images of the Twin Towers collapsing on thousands of people, out of my mind. Or maybe even worse, the men, women and children in the four planes that knew they were destined to a violent disintegration in fire! I get teary-eyed every time I think of it. It is extremely traumatic to contemplate. And now another shuttle disaster! One at the hands of evil terrorists; the other an accident, fate, providence? But what is gained by trying to take all of these things out of the realm of God’s responsibility? God and God only has the "ability-to-respond" Man is not running God’s creation, God is. How can any doubt it?
We all have our own personal financial, health, social, mental, and spiritual trials in addition to thousands of other problems in our home, community, state, nation and world which can easily overwhelm us if we are not well grounded. Do we think all these things just invented themselves and brought themselves into existence? I tell you No; these are all the design of an all-wise God.
People freely admit that God knows every sparrow that falls, the individual names of one hundred billion billion stars, and the number of hairs on five and one half billion people’s head at any given second of the day, but that He is, nonetheless, just not concerned with the smaller details of your life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
YellowStone:
Kat, my dear sister.
Never sell yourself short for you too are an inspiration to me.
I read your post from Ray, (posted below) and truth to tell, I have no problem with any of it. God is all knowing, iis the Alpha and the Omega. Perhaps I am discovering what I already knew. :)
I will continue to pray and meditate on this subject and I thank God for all of you for keeping this thread so loving and fruitful.
May God continue to draw you all close, always.
Love to each of you,
Darren
http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html -------------------------------------------
If people could only see that God is not a carnal-minded human as themselves. He is GOD -- The Great Creator, Sustainer, and Saviour of all -- GOD! God has a plan, a procedure, and a purpose for this creation. Precious few have even a basic understanding of what it is. Nothing in creation is out of control from God’s perspective. Nothing ever surprises God or catches Him off guard. God does not view the activity of His creation from His celestial vantage point unaware of what people will do next. God knows all in advance. God doesn’t just know what "will" happen in the future, He causes all that will happen in the future. God IS the future. God is the Alpha and the Omega -- He IS the beginning; He IS the end, and nothing can be different from what God says MUST BE.
We have got to get away from the "God allows certain things" mentality and syndrome. God CREATES, God DESTROYS, God HEALS, God KILLS, God CAUSES, God BRINGS ABOUT. God SAVES. God does not "allow" things that He has not foreordained to be! This popular doctrine among the religions of the world is utter unscriptural foolishness. The teaching suggests that man does things that God had no previous knowledge of, does not approve of, wishes would have never happened, but nonetheless, He "allows" them. Certainly He "allows" them in as much as He does not "disallow" them, but this still begs the question as to their true origin. God is the Creator, not Satan.
"For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are all things: to Whom be glory for ever. Amen" (KJV Rom. 11:36).
"Seeing that OUT of Him and THROUGH Him and FOR Him is all..." (Concordant Version).
Does this also include EVIL?
"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me, I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS" (Isaiah 45:6-7).
There are many many things in life that are very hard to accept and deal with in our weakened spiritual state. I cannot, after all this time, get the images of the Twin Towers collapsing on thousands of people, out of my mind. Or maybe even worse, the men, women and children in the four planes that knew they were destined to a violent disintegration in fire! I get teary-eyed every time I think of it. It is extremely traumatic to contemplate. And now another shuttle disaster! One at the hands of evil terrorists; the other an accident, fate, providence? But what is gained by trying to take all of these things out of the realm of God’s responsibility? God and God only has the "ability-to-respond" Man is not running God’s creation, God is. How can any doubt it?
We all have our own personal financial, health, social, mental, and spiritual trials in addition to thousands of other problems in our home, community, state, nation and world which can easily overwhelm us if we are not well grounded. Do we think all these things just invented themselves and brought themselves into existence? I tell you No; these are all the design of an all-wise God.
People freely admit that God knows every sparrow that falls, the individual names of one hundred billion billion stars, and the number of hairs on five and one half billion people’s head at any given second of the day, but that He is, nonetheless, just not concerned with the smaller details of your life.
brothertoall:
Well I read everything and for me when I think on this very subject it just blows my mind and smoke starts coming out of my ears. One of these days I am afraid if I think to long on that I am going to blow a circuit board. It's the only one I have left up there too so I have to be careful! ;D :P :-\
Darren I always try to think of it this way. I am thankful He is in control of everything in and about me.Good or not so good.
No earth shattering revelation in my post but it is much easier for me to know that it is all Him. Never ever thought or knew that just a little over a year ago. Knowing that He is in control takes a lot of stress off me and is comforting in a strange sorta way.
Love to you all and some real good stuff here.
bobby
YellowStone:
Bobby,
That God is "all in all" and that this is how he works is truly a blessing that cannot be ignored or stepped away from once discovered.
1Cr 12:6
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
I really do not want to to carry on with this discussion to much longer as there is such a very fine line between the two debated sides that I find each will believe what God leads them to believe.
The Holy Scriptures are so full of insights and there is always a new discovery on almost every page.
Here is perhaps a perfect example of whose words come out of my mouth at any given time. :)
1Cr 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Okay, I will admit it. I have used Jesus's name in vain before and clearly by Pauls words above, I was no speaking by the SPIRIT of GOD. Which of course begs the question, by whom was I speaking?
Paul answers this in his letter to the Romans:
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
If the man with a carnal mind is not subject to the law of God, then surely he is not speaking by the Spirit of God.
James speaks of the tounge:
Jam 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; [it is] an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Why is it evil, because it is at enmity with God. (Rom 8:7)
Does anyone support the notion that Paul was/is mistaken that the Spirit of God DOES INDEED cause some to speak accursedly of Christ?
Restating the words of Paul: "Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
Dare I suggest that this proves that although God allows such talk, even knows that such talk will occur, does not actually force such words to be said?
Perhaps this argument is nullified if one considers that when God worketh all in all, it also includes Satan.
I cannot and will not argue that one, for it is above my head. :)
Love to you Bobby,
Darren
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