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Satan - Saved or Reconciled - Is There a Difference?

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Kat:

Hi worm,

Everyone goes through the fire, for the elect it is now, for all the rest of mankind it is the Lake of fire.
Mar 9:49  For everyone will be salted with fire.

Rev 21:8  But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

All are in the Lake of fire, the elect are the fire, and the rest of mankind will be cast in it.

1Co 3:13  each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is.
1Co 3:14  If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

There is no literal lake, and there is no literal fire.
Jesus Christ and His Body of saints are the Lake of judging, purifying and consuming spiritual fire.

1Co 6:2  Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Heb 12:29  for also, "Our God is a consuming fire."

1Jo 3:2  Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be. But we know that when He shall be revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

Psa 104:4  He makes his messengers winds, His ministers a flaming fire.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Deborah-Leigh:


Hi Marie and Kat

This is what I see from where I am standing…..Marie

You wrote : Take a toddler for example. Even at the tender age of 1 or 2, the toddler is concerned ONLY for themselves. It is me, me, me. This is the very sinful nature we are born with. Temper tantrums are their way of expressing themselves for not getting their selfish desires. They are sinning even at this young age, because so many times they KNOW what they shouldn't be doing, but they keep doing it to see how far they can get away with fulfilling their own fleshly lusts - (even though this lust seems innocent enough to us compared to the fleshly lusts of adults). Did we ever have to teach a child to  misbehave?  No, they do a fine job on their own.

Your comment deepens my insight and understanding that babies will be going in to the lake of fire which for me is symbolic for correction, edification and encouragement into the knowledge of Christ. Not so bad!

Proverbs 22 : 6 Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it.

I understand what you have shared with Kat regarding your indignation against the Church teachings on accountability. In the Catholic Church they have confirmation rites, and in the Jewish traditions they have Bar mitzvah celebrations into adulthood and so called “accountability”. I have come to perceive that once we believe in our own free will (which doesn’t exist) then we will have to give account for this before God. As you illustrate Marie, little babies start life acting out the attitude that everything must revolve around them or else tantrums follow. If this self centred attitude is the basis for our beliefs then, as the scriptures declare, we will have to explain and account before God for our own arrogance, self willed blindness and folly and for every idle word. Matt 12 : 36 …every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

As I understand this, those who recognize that God is Sovereign and that no one has uncaused choice, feelings, thoughts, circumstances or actions, then ( for me,)  it is those with this awareness who  will be the ones who are more likely to be undergoing judgment now. They are more likely to gauge their spiritual strength or weakness against their levels of dependence on God and their levels of faith in His wisdom through whatever circumstances God causes them to walk through. For them trials, tribulations and circumstances are but  tests of  faith and dependence and trust of Christ in God drawing them into deeper reliance on Christ which through Judgment moves them further away from self reliance, self importance or self esteem into deeper sharing the cross with Christ.

By contrast, others who are not in the Judgment NOW, will be trying to impress God, living by the law, trying to be Godly self-approved self-appointed helpers of God. (These helpers, call themselves servants of God which veils their eyes from the fact that they actually really think and believe that they have the power of choice to please or serve God and they teach and lead others into the same heresy. The age or time of accountability meaning for them that it is all up to their choices and their free will as clocked in by man made traditions and customs that void the word of God for those who  neither know the Scriptures or the power of God.  Blind leading the blind.) Non have power and non have uncaused choice and it is these under illusion who will be measuring themselves and others in pious comparison against their own good deeds, how much they give to charity, how big their works are, how large their Church is or how wide their support is in TBN land, New York best sellers book lists,  and they will show off their good deeds before men and ultimately in defiance  before God…….Pity them of whom it is written…
Matt 7 : 22 …Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name: and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works:
Rev 2 : 2…I know thy works
Rev  2 : 9…I know thy works
Rev  2 : 13 I know thy works
Rev 2 : 19 I know thy works
Rev 3 : 1 I know thy works
Rev 3 : 8 I know thy works
Rev 3 : 15 I know thy works
God knows EVERYTHING.  The message. Get over it …overcome self, get over works, overcome self-will, self-approval self-justification, self- importance, self-rationalization self-aggrandizement, self self self self…..and to over come self esteem, for me,  the worlds most insidious seductive and heinous  anti Christ  perversion in teaching ever.
Rev… And to him who overcomes…I will give…I will give…I will give…. and He has already given HIMSELF. , and we will who are called, and we will who are chosen and we will who are judged now and we….

Chris R wrote : ALL will be judged, Were is it written differently?

So for me this all points to one thing. We are all accountable and we all begin life learning how to have a good self-esteem. We are all mistakenly lead, trained and coerced through worldly teachings to believe and experience the illusion that we have free choice etc which places our ego on the throne while displacing God and His Sovereignty in our own deluded minds. In this we all fall short by Gods design, plan purpose and intention. Only Jesus who never sinned was never accountable because He was always responsible and for me, is from the beginning Gods Son. In our beginning we are Gods weak children being trained up into spiritual strength and right standing with God. I agree with you Marie that we are called, chosen and dragged only by God in His time according to His will and plan for us individually. For me there is no age benchmark for this to happen. God can call and choose anyone, any time, any where anyhow.  No one can pre-empt God or cause God to work according to our perceived will. We line up with God’s will God doesn’t line up to our perceived mistaken free will or choice. God doesn’t change. We have to and God causes our changes.

I believe accountability comes from our, by design, spiritual weakness and is the parent of blame shifting and all the mental ills that manifest in the powerful grip of this illusion. We confuse accountability with responsibility.  We confuse free will with caused will. We confuse God with ourselves. We  experience these ills through  our own weakness in spirit and weakness of spiritual strength. Our weakness is beyond our comprehension until God takes hold of us to show us a thing or two like Bible Truths and LOF the Beast Within and the Myths of Free will revelations and trials and tribulations.
 

We all experience painful trials and tribulations. As God causes us to  begin to succumb yield and submit under HIS chastisement, training and disciplining  which is HIS work on us as He pleases to do and will, then we become broken not as in shattered but as in yielding, obedient, submissive pliable as we are broken into meekness and prepared for the knowledge that God alone is Sovereign. This knowledge takes away our wildness as we are grafted into this truth of the true vine and as we begin to feel the sap of the truth enter into our thoughts and minds changing us from our wildness wilderness mentality by conforming us into His purity of faith and dependence and trust in His responsibility for us.

 I think THE Free Will LOF teaching is THE mega disclosure of OUR times. That our eyes have read it, that our hearts have contemplated its message means for me, that we have been the ones to enter into the Holy Sanctuary of Gods mysteries, holiness and power.  It may appear on a number of pages on the internet but it is explosive in its power, it is pure in its message and it for me is from the Spirit of Christ teaching us disciples the Truth.

Accountability for me is a spoof like free will. They (for me) belong in the same stables of error and illusion. Like you say Marie….when does anyone get chosen or called of their own free choice or free will? All is of God. The times are in His hands. This is not dependent on our age, on our traditions, our Churchy confirmations or Synagogue Bar mitzvah’s or on anything of man. It is all-dependent on God. I am not saying we are not going to be judged or held accountable for our trust in free will. I am saying that as we are released from and as we let go of  the illusion that we have free-will,  our accountability will transform to conformity in Christ’s image. This is how I see it.

Ecc 3 : 1- 

To EVERYTHING there is a season, and a time for EVERY MATTER or purpose under heaven.
14 I know that whatever God does, it endures forever, nothing can be added to it nor anything taken from it. AND GOD DOES IT SO THAT MEN WILL REVERENTLY FEAR HIM REVERE AND WORSHIP HIM knowing that HE IS.
For me reverent fear can only occur as and when we receive illumination from God that reveals HIS Sovereignty to us. As we can see already, some revolt and scream heresy while hurling abuse and pious indignations like the Pharisees did in the time of Jesus when they first see this free will is their pampered god-self free will idolatry. Once exposed they will try to resist, hide, deny and even try to kill, maim, tarnish, discredit, oppose, blot out and cancel its revelation…. while some of us, blessedly embrace God as God. 

Ecc 12 : 13,14 All has been heard; the end of the matter is; Fear God, revere and worship Him, knowing that He is, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man, the full, original PURPOSE of His creation, the object of God’s providence, the root f character, the foundation of all happiness, the adjustment to al inharmonious circumstances, and the conditions under the sun and the whole duty for every man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it is good or evil.



Peace to you

Arcturus :)

ned:
Hi Kat,
Peace to you and may we both be guided by His Spirit to teach us all things.

Hi Arcturus,
Your dedication for edification is heart-warming.
One thing you state,


--- Quote from: Arcturus on December 07, 2006, 07:56:27 AM ---
 I think THE Free Will LOF teaching is THE mega disclosure of OUR times. That our eyes have read it, that our hearts have contemplated its message means for me, that we have been the ones to enter into the Holy Sanctuary of Gods mysteries, holiness and power. It may appear on a number of pages on the internet but it is explosive in its power, it is pure in its message and it for me is from the Spirit of Christ teaching us disciples the Truth.


--- End quote ---

reminded me of this verse I wanted to share with you,

Hab 2:14  For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

20 years ago I could have never imagined the information that I'd be able to find at the click of a mouse. Ray's site is obviously ordained by God...a means (if even a trifle) to bring knowledge of Him to the earth.

Which could bring up another discussion.  There is receiving knowledge, but will all who receive this knowledge receive the Spirit?

Love,
Marie

Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Marie

Yes I agree with your comment for discussion : Which could bring up another discussion.  There is receiving knowledge, but will all who receive this knowledge receive the Spirit?

What do you think? I see this is two parts. Present and Future.

THE PRESENT:

What comes to mind for me is Judas. He knew Jesus Christ. He was called but failed in his faith in the final analysis. The chosen will be failthful to the end. Faithful to what they know and to WHO they know. Look at Peter. Jesus prayed that His faith endure and after his conversion.....after his conversion....

Non were converted until Penticost as I understand this. So yes. I agree with you. Knowledge is insufficient. Conversion is necessary which for me means that Christ is the centre not self. When Christ is on the throne of our being, then the true fruit of His Spirit manifests not in outward show as some in Mystery Babylon would pretend to aquire,  but in true inward unfolding and maturation. I also believe that we can have the intellectual knowledge without the experience of Christ. We can know in the mind and have the revelations given to us through the discernments given by the Holy Spirit and we can still backslide! For me, my aliveness in soul body and spirit is all due to His presence. Should He withdraw in any area of my heart, mind, body or Spirit, I will wilt and die. He is my goodness, He is my clear thinking, He brings the scriptures to my mind to discuss and contemplate and learn. He is my everything that is true, worthy of reverance, honourable and seemly, justice, it is He who is pure, lovely and loveable, kind and gracious and it is He who is virtue and excellence and as said in the Scriputures Phil 4 : 8 Think on thes things....Whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatso'ever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report, if there be any virtue, and if there be any priase, think on these things.

Of my self I can offer nothing honest, good or worthy. Of yourself neither can you or anyone! Self has to be overcome, subdued and put under foot. When this is fully grasped and appropriated in mind and heart....does this not bring in its wake the apprehension, the hope and the expectation of the reality that there will come for us a true knowledge of Christ's Glory? He will not share His glory with flesh but as we are disenguaged with our selves and conformed into His image does this not bring with it a unique experience of intimacy with Him and forknowledge of HIS Glory to come upon the earth finally? Is it not this experience that sets us apart and makes the world grow strangely dim while we become all the more perculiar to those who have still worldly eyes and worldly comprehension? This is not a pretigue status but a privilage of meekness under the awesome rule and Sovereignty of God Himself! No pride of place in this perception or foothold for Satan can be present here as is often the case in pretended election! :o

We need, I need Christ to hold us/me steady to the end.  We/I need God to give us/me to Christ as His own. We/I can not do this of our/my selves or of our/my purest intentions becasue we/I do not choose Christ but are chosen by Him. There is comfort in that what He starts He will finish because He is the Author and finisher of our Faith. For me there is comfort in that.  8)

As for taking our faith or right standing with God for granted...I am ever aware that if God wants to put my faith to the test, He can put it to the test beyond which it could stand. He alone makes me stand. Just because I know He will not put me through more than I can withstand and that He will always provide an escape into refuge with Him, does not mean I do not recall the many many times I have experienced my weakness, failure and liability to temptations. This balance brings clarity of the supreme dependence I have in Christ. As He said....without Him we are and can do nothing. We can not even know anything much less drink of His living waters of His Spirit of Truth, Faith, Sovereignty and Holiness.

THE FUTURE

Hab 2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

What God says will happen, WILL HAPPEN. As this is prophesied in the Scripture, I believe that in the day that the knowledge of the glory of the Lord covers the earth as the waters cover the sea, it will not be anything shabby. For me, the knowledge of the glory of the Lord will bring with it all the blessings of right knowledge, right understanding and righteousness in the end where all opposition and all doubts as to who the Lord is, will be put under His feet. :D

I believe others here will also have certain scriptures and the thoughts arise in their hearts and minds that touch on this event to come as prophesied, who can also share what they see from where they are standing for our encouragement and edification.

Peace to you.

Arcturus :)

UncleBeau:

--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on December 03, 2006, 09:44:16 AM ---
--- Quote from: YellowStone on December 03, 2006, 06:18:13 AM ---Kat,

I fully realize what Ray states about "Lucifer," but I find it very interesting that he is holding onto the literal meaning and not the spiritual.

Am I the only one that can see the OBVIOUS connection between the "King of Babylon" and Satan.

Isa 14:6-15
* v6 - He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, [and] none hindereth. 
* v7 - The whole earth is at rest, [and] is quiet: they break forth into singing.
* v8 - Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, [and] the cedars of Lebanon, [saying], Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
* v9 - Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet [thee] at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, [even] all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
* v10 - All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
* v11 - Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [and] the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
* v12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
* v13 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
* v14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
* v15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Granted Ray is correct that the literal reference of Lucifer is concerning the "King of Babylon," who then is the spiritual in reference too?

Love to you,

Darren




--- End quote ---

As far as I remember, the word "lucifer" has already been proven to be added in where the word "howl" should go. I'm not going to go into detail, but what kind of spiritual meaning are you looking for with "howl"?

-Beau
--- End quote ---

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