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Satan - Saved or Reconciled - Is There a Difference?

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hillsbororiver:

--- Quote from: YellowStone on December 03, 2006, 06:18:13 AM ---Kat,

I fully realize what Ray states about "Lucifer," but I find it very interesting that he is holding onto the literal meaning and not the spiritual.

Am I the only one that can see the OBVIOUS connection between the "King of Babylon" and Satan.

Isa 14:6-15
* v6 - He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, [and] none hindereth. 
* v7 - The whole earth is at rest, [and] is quiet: they break forth into singing.
* v8 - Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, [and] the cedars of Lebanon, [saying], Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
* v9 - Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet [thee] at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, [even] all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
* v10 - All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
* v11 - Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [and] the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
* v12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
* v13 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
* v14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
* v15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Granted Ray is correct that the literal reference of Lucifer is concerning the "King of Babylon," who then is the spiritual in reference too?

Love to you,

Darren




--- End quote ---

Hi Darren,

I see the spiritual message as all men at some point in time exalting the "beast within" above God.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

Deborah-Leigh:

Hello Chris R

This conversation has led me to perceive that judgement is in fact on a gradient of intensity. I did not see that before and it has blessed me to see it now. In fact the scripture that came up for me I quoted earlier, was the first to be matched to two others in the NT.

The key that started this perception was Kats quip that Satan first in last out of the LOF. I enjoyed that comment and it continued to inspire deeper understanding. After this scripture came to my mind two others followed from the NT.

Isaiah 28 :26 – 29 And when he trains each of them correctly, for his God instructs him correctly and teaches him. 27 For dill is not threshed with a sharp threshing instrument, nor is a cartwheel rolled over cumin, but dill is beaten off with a staff, and cumin with a rod ,by hand, 28. Does one crush bread grain? No, he does not thresh it continuously. ( Here this verse for me torpedoes the fallacy and heresy of endless punishment!) But when he has driven his cartwheel and his horses over it, he scatters it, tossing it up to the wind without having crushed it. 29 This also comes from the Lord of hosts. Who is wonderful in counsel and excellent in wisdom and effectual working.

These are the two from the NT that have helped me to see that Judgment is on a gradient of intensity. Stonger for some and less intense for others depending on the depth of waywardness, hardness of heart and complilance to Christliness.

Matt 13 : 8  The parable of the sower sowing seeds on the way side, stony places, seeds that had no roots, thorny and good ground, and 
Matt 20: 1 The parable of the worker in the vineyard with the owner hiring workmen  third sixth ninth and eleventh hour and paying the same wages.

I may be way off base here and this might have an entirely different meaning but for me in regard to the LOF and Judgment I see this as meaning that some will suffer harsh correction and chastisement eg Adolph Hitler etc and others will be taught and trained into the way of the Lord which will feel far less corrective and more administrative in effect like in the training of children who's lives were cut off before they could know Christ.

I had no idea that babies would go to the LOF. I see it now and appreciate the deeper clarification and awareness that knowledge of Christ will be received differently according to the degree of error in each person. People who love wickedness will hate correction! ;D

I have for years wondered at how this would work and now I can say I am blessed abundantly to now have the revelation! Judgment is OKAY. It is GRACE! I see it now!

What also comes to mind is that Brimstone is not so bad either! :D

I appreciate your explanation and your effort to bring to me an edifying response :)

Do you have any comment on the three scriptures that I think could possibly be a match?

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

hillsbororiver:
Luke 12 (King James Version)

47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

 48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Deborah-Leigh:
Goose bumps Amen! ;D

........."and again I say rejoice ".....;D

AMEN!

worm:
hi guys,
sorry for jumping in so late but here goes anyway...

the WhiteThrone judgement is not to send everyone to the LOF, but to judge those who was not risen in the first resurrection, according to their works:

Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

to my understanding, the Church (minus the overcomers) and all who have done Godly deeds their whole life and who were not necessarily Christians or have heard his Word (those sheep from the "other flocks" Jesus referred to) would receive their reward of immortality at this judgement.

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