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I wish that someone could help me with this.

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Craig:

--- Quote from: stego on December 08, 2006, 03:53:11 AM ---Wow i never knew that Jesus Christ is Lord but is not God!  Prior to just now i had always interpreted


--- Quote ---I and the Father, We are ONE" (John 10:30).
--- End quote ---



Sean

--- End quote ---

Careful Sean,  True Jesus is Lord...AND he is also God, BUT He is not the Father.  Think of God as a title.

There is God the Father and God the Son. 

Example my surname is Parsons, there is Parsons the father (my dad) and Parsons the son (me :D).  We are both Parsons.

And someday we will all be brought into the family of God.

Blessings
Craig

TimothyVI:
Thanks Kat, but it was reading and re-reading what Ray said that got me more confused.

Ray said,
"In fact, all of these things are answered in ONE Scripture.

I will now give you the ONLY Scripture you will EVER need for understanding Who Jesus Christ and God the Father are and how many Gods there are, and Who composes that ONE God. Here it is:

"For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, nevertheless for US there is ONE God, the FATHER, out of Whom ALL IS, and we for Him, and ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, through Whom all is, and we through Him" (I Cor. 8:5-6). "

That makes perfect sense to me. What doesn't make sense is why earlier in time, old testament,  Jesus said
that He was the only God and that we should have no other Gods before Him.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.
Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring [them] near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? [who] hath told it from that time? [have] not I the LORD? and [there is] no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; [there is] none beside me.
Hsa 13:4 Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.
Exd 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:
1Ki 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD [is] God, [and that there is] none else

I think that  we agree that it was Jesus saying these things in each of these passages.
In none of these scriptures does Jesus of the old testament intimate that there is one greater than He. He in fact makes it clear that He is the only God for us. So if you believed that there was a God greater than him, you were blasphemeing against him.
I agree with everything that Ray said in his paper as it relates to what the new testament teaches. The new testament is crystal clear about the relationship between Jesus and his Father. So if I disregard anything that Jesus said about himself in the old testament, I have no problem. Having the new covenant, are we to disregard the old testament altogether.

I am not splitting hairs to make something difficult that seems clear to many others. Perhaps I just do not yet have the eyes to see and the ears to hear. I am asking God in my prayers to give me the knowledge.

Thank you all for your patience with me.

Tim

hillsbororiver:
Hi Tim,

Jesus did not give the New Covenant to the old time Prophets either, "the better promise" was reserved for His elect. The message He gave ancient Israel is not to put false earthly gods before Him, the Father was not revealed until Jesus came in the flesh. Remember John Chapter 14, posted earlier in the thread.

His Peace and Wisdom to you Brother,

Joe

jerry:
Ive always understood the other gods that God was speeking of was the pagan gods of the other nations,and god was defineing Himself away from them and was not,through that one statement,trying to explain eveything about himself,he gave Israel only what they needed at that time and that was to serve Him and Him only ,and that God had not at that time revealed Himself completly as a famiily type to Isreal at that time, and I beleave that is one of the mysteries that Jesus came to reveal through the Holy Spirit which brings us back to genises when God said Let us make man in our image after our likeness.......Jerry

stego:
Hi Craig,
    I guess it would be okay to think of it as God the Father, and God the Son, thinking of "God" as a surname.  But then i think you have to agree that we all will have that surname someday, as we too will someday have the full image of God.  Jesus is only God in the sense that he is in the full image of God.  So for example, Jesus did not create the universe, but God did.  This is my understanding now.

Sean

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