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prodigal son
rocky:
--- Quote from: bobf on January 18, 2007, 01:13:08 AM ---
--- Quote ---I also find it interesting that everyone who believes in Him won't perish (be destroyed) but have life eternal and the prodigal son did perish (be destroyed).
--- End quote ---
Everyone who believes in Christ won't perish, but that is different from saying that everyone who believes in Christ never perished.
Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
Both underlined words are apollumi [destroyed, lost, perished]
The sheep that went astray WAS perished. And yet Jesus also says that it is not the Father's will that that sheep SHOULD perish. Likewise, the prodigal son DID perish and yet once he returned he WON'T perish.
The elder son is like the 99 sheep who "never went astray". Is there any such sheep?
Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Notice below it says Jesus is not come to call the righteous, but sinners.
Matthew 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Is Jesus really saying that some are truly "whole" and "righteous"? No, he's talking about those who THINK they are whole & righteous, like the pharisees. Jesus came to call the sinners (prodigal sons) to repentance, not the righteous (remember the elder son claimed to be righteous).
As far as "all that is mine is thine" it may be similar to Israel according to the flesh being entrusted with the things of God.
Romaans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Romans 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises.
That's how I see it anyway.
You might want to read Psalm 107. I think it gives the "pattern" for the "redeemed of the Lord".
God bless
--- End quote ---
i fully understand your post, and i'm not saying i don't see it too, but what about the verse above in my post. Why would the father say this to the elder son.
Luk 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
And here to the chosen, Jesus quotes this:
Jhn 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
These verses make me think.
(oops, just fully read all of your post Bob re: the verses above, i'll look more into that. thanks)
Also,
I also think it is interesting that both sons were already given their inheritance (past tense), before the prodigal son went out and waisted it on worldly pleasures. This would make me think that both at one time had repented, recieved the inheritance; and then one went and turned back to the world. One seeked his own life and lost it (lost his inheritance, the prodigal son) and one didn't waist his inheritance.]
Seems like to me the prod. son was this guy
1Co 5:5 To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
One last thing i think of, isn't the LOF also to bring one to repentance, to humble one.
Thanks Bob for the scriptures, and as I said; i can see it both ways.
rocky:
I have a question about this verse, hope some will help me here.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
I see the ground to powder, as those in LOF, and the chosen those who by his mercy have fallen on Christ, not having to go through the severeness of LOF.
My guess is, most here see this as the opposite, that the elect are the one's ground to powder.
But then who is the one's broken??
bobf:
--- Quote from: rocky on January 18, 2007, 01:22:50 AM ---i fully understand your post, and i'm not saying i don't see it too, but what about the verse above in my post. Why would the father say this to the elder son....
Luke 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
--- End quote ---
I gave one possibility for "all that I have is thine." I don't have an answer for why he says "thou are ever with me."
--- Quote ---I also think it is interesting that both sons were already given their inheritance (past tense), before the prodigal son went out and waisted it on worldly pleasures. This would make me think that both at one time had repented, recieved the inheritance; and then one went and turned back to the world. One seeked his own life and lost it (lost his inheritance, the prodigal son) and one didn't waist his inheritance.
--- End quote ---
I see what you're saying. But lets suppose the elder son represents God's elect.
- Do God's elect claim to have never transgressed God's commandments?
- Will God's elect, who are appointed to judge the world and to bring the world into God's kingdom, object and complain when God welcomes a repentant sinner?
- Will God's elect refuse to come in and celebrate with God?
- Did God never kill the fatted calf for His elect (as the elder son says)?
The elder son seems to have the qualities of a pharisee who follows the letter of the law but does not know mercy. They do not seem to be the qualities of God's elect, who will be raised like Him.
--- Quote ---One last thing i think of, isn't the LOF also to bring one to repentance, to humble one.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, that's how I see it.
hebrewroots98:
Rocky,
I see it as you see it; the elect are the ones that are willingly and humbly falling at the feet of Jesus with a broken and contrite heart; while Jesus is the one whom must and will fall onto the 'non elect' with the intention of purging the sin out of them- probably against their 'will', whereas they must be crushed and ground to powder for HIM to start all over with molding their hearts and minds since they didn't or weren't willing to do it on their own. (I may be wrong here, but, this will be interesting to see what the others perceive. ):D
bobf:
--- Quote from: rocky on January 18, 2007, 01:37:46 AM ---I have a question about this verse, hope some will help me here.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
I see the ground to powder, as those in LOF, and the chosen those who by his mercy have fallen on Christ, not having to go through the severeness of LOF.
My guess is, most here see this as the opposite, that the elect are the one's ground to powder.
--- End quote ---
I used to see it 100% the way you see it: ground-to-powder=LOF. But yeah, now I see it the other way: ground-to-power=beast slain.
--- Quote ---But then who is the one's broken??
--- End quote ---
The one who stumbles at the stumbling stone.
Isaiah 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
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