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Free Will is an Oxymoron.
Sorin:
--- Quote from: Phazel on January 11, 2007, 01:40:02 PM ---
--- Quote from: Sorin on January 11, 2007, 01:28:42 PM ---kitty,
My question isn't whether or not we have free will, but rather since we don't make any free uncaused choices and everything we've ever done could not have been avoided
why are we still held accountable for our actions.
Phazel comes the closest to answering this, but still doesn't fully answer it for me. I mean sure, we carried out the act, but we had no choice but to carry out the act since our choices are caused, and therefore not free. That means we didn't freely choose to carry out a certain act, we just had no choice but to do it since we don't make free [uncaused] choices.
Do you now understand what I'm asking here?
Take care,
Sorin
--- End quote ---
You may be questioning the word accountable in perspective to "punishment".
Regaurdless of that take a look at yourself (not saying this in a judgmental way) you feel, you are aware, etc etc.
There is no doubting that we are aware, there is no doubting that we make choices.
However are you perfect? I am not.
What can make you perfect?
You also can take the perspective of bible translations. It is well known that often a translation uses the closest word in that language. I could be wrong about that but I have read at times our english concepts often do not have an exact word to describe that in anothwer language.
That said. We are only accountable in the perspective of needing to be made perfect. Regaurdless of Gods responsibility he still has to do something to us to make us perfect.
Our individuality makes us accountable to be fixed by God.
It has taken me a long time to get this far, be patient.
--- End quote ---
Phazel,
Let's take a look at the meaning of the word:
accountable
adjective
liable to account for one's actions
In that case, I was caused to do it. Sure I made the choice, but was it free? A completely free uncaused choice? No.
Take care,
Sorin
gmik:
Same for me John. I am on the 2nd listening of Rays tape & of course I have read his paper on Free Will twice. I get it.....I don't get it....I know it....I forget it....
I agree that the forum helps keep it in front of me...
Sorin, I agree that is a fuzzy area for me. If I really had no choice in what I "chose" and it was fore ordained for me to do it, then why should I be punished for it??? Yes, I agree that given the set of circumstances anyone couldve been a Hitler, but I don't see how that changes anything.
Clearly, w/o double-speak, I have no choice but to choose what was predestined for me to choose. So why does God hold me accountable????
Another question, God is no respector of persons right??? What does this exactly mean?? If God chose Hitler to be Hitler and Billy Graham to have a grand, life isn't that bing a respector of persons?
love,
gena
sansmile:
Hi all,
Have been watching this thread and i agree it's a difficult area to fathom. How i started to understand it was, that God is chastening (teaching) us like children. He puts the choices in front of us and we choose (and He knows which one we will choose at any given stage). But as He teaches us and we grow, then we should KNOW what choice to make to be obedient. If knowing what God would want, and we still choose to be disobedient THEN we are accountable. God didn't test Abraham with the ultimate test (sacrificing his son) until Abraham had learnt a lot of lessons. His faith was strong enough to pass that trial.
We teach our children...we give them choices..as they grow they should KNOW what choice they should make to please us.
So by being in our word, listening to Him and learning from our trials, our faith and spirit grows, which then enables us to choose to obey His teachings and He knows we will!
Can u all see what i mean??
God Bless
Sandie
Phazel:
--- Quote from: Sorin on January 11, 2007, 02:25:19 PM ---
Phazel,
Let's take a look at the meaning of the word:
accountable
adjective
liable to account for one's actions
In that case, I was caused to do it. Sure I made the choice, but was it free? A completely free uncaused choice? No.
Take care,
Sorin
--- End quote ---
Your combining two issues that essentially can be unrelated. Being accountable does not need a free uncaused choice.
Liable " subject or susceptible: to be liable to heart disease."
We are subject to Gods judgment. That judgment is what will make us perfect.
It is hard to get past accountability and judgment as a matter of God perfecting us.
Rather we think of it as God punishing us for a free will choice.
simply put. God designed us to do whast we do, designed his plan so that our lives are influenced causing us to make the choices he planned for us to make.
Our awareness understands the good and bad in every choice we have ever made. We will be accountable to God in order for him to perfect us.
My explaination does not change the fact that we have no free will, it merely attempts to say that if we are not accountable to God, then we will never be perfected.
We cannot be accountable to anyone else because no one else has the power to perfect us.
Kat:
Hi Gena,
Consider this verse.
Heb 2:7 You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor,
Heb 2:8 putting everything in subjection under His feet." Now in putting everything in subjection to Him, He left nothing outside His control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to Him.
He decided to way it this way, He is in control, but He still hold us accountable for our actions.
You said,
--- Quote ---Clearly, w/o double-speak, I have no choice but to choose what was predestined for me to choose. So why does God hold me accountable?
--- End quote ---
You say you understand that you have no choice, but yet you still think that God should not hold you accountable.
But you see if we were not held accountable, how could God correct us?
Do you see what I mean, we have to be held accountable so that God can chastize us, and then we can learn and grow and build character.
What would really be unfair, is if God corrected us when we were not accountable :(
That is why God made it the way it is.
He decided it would be the way it is, so He could shape and mold us by correction.
And the only way it would be fair for Him to correct us, is if we are accountable.
As for God not being a respecter of person,
to me that means there is nothing we can do to impress Him.
He does not look on any of us with favor over another, because of who we are, because He made us who we are :)
Hope this helps.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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