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Author Topic: God's Will  (Read 3293 times)

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Craig

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God's Will
« on: January 16, 2007, 06:52:45 PM »

Ray,
 
How are you doing?  I just listened to the first half of the audio "Free Will is an Oxymoron," and I loved it!  I love to have discussions about that topic.  Anyway, if you have a free moment, I have a question for you, and I was kind of hoping that you could answer.  I posted this question in the forum, and no one has seemed to be able to answer me clearly.  It is a question that I've had for some time.
 
From the forum:
 
As I read continuously in the scripture, and coming to the knowledge of the truth of God's soveriegnty, I have a question about His will.  I'm hoping that someone has some insight.  I personally have not done a whole lot of study into this matter, and I'm looking for some guidance.

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

I see that this word for will in the original language is thelēma strong's 2307.  This is not the same word used here:

1Ti 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

This word for will is thelō  /  ethelō, strong's 2309.

My question here is can anyone expo und to me what the difference is on these words?  Especially when we compare the soveriegnty of God that says His will, will be done to what 2309 is.  I hope that I am making this question clear that I have.  Jesus says that he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven, but yet we know that God's will is always done.  I'm just looking for an exposition on the differences, or where and how I could do a study on this.

- end of question


Someone gave me a link to the first study that was typed out in the conference from last year.  I know that you began to expound on that first verse that I mentioned, but I don't think that my question was actually answered.  I'd appreciate it if you could give me a link to a study that you have already done, or fill me with some personal insight.  I hate to take up too much of your time, I know that you're probably very busy.
 
Much love in Christ,
Jason
 

Dear Jason:
When all else fails, read the material I have already written on this subject. It isn't as though these things are burried in the back of ten thousand emails, but are right in my "Lake of Fire" series. Here is the answer to your question from that series "Lake of Fire" Part V:

                DO YOU BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES?

Test yourself now with another classic prophetic verse that I firmly believe, but that I have had many Christians tell me will never be fulfilled. The verse I am referencing is correctly translated; it is profoundly and simply stated; and yet is believed by virtually NO ONE! Most Christians don’t believe it because THEY DON’T WANT TO BELIEVE IT. If I were to show you a Scripture that says God will NOT torture most of humanity in an eternal lake of fire, would you believe it? What if I showed you a dozen such Scriptures? What about two dozen? Let’s just try one and see how serious you are about believing the Scriptures. We cannot believe that God will save ALL mankind while, at the same time, torturing most of the mankind in an eternal lake of fire, now can we? Here then is just one profound and beautiful statement of Good News from God that virtually none of the Christian world teaches or believes:

    "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour: Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (I Tim. 2:4).

Now I don’t mean to be continually picking on the World of Christendom, but understand that it is ONLY Christians (lead by Christian theologians, clergymen, pastors, and teachers) that teach the whole world that Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the Whole World (I Jn. 4:14), WILL NOT SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD. It is only THEY, who teach the world that this prophecy in I Tim. 2:4 will NEVER COME TO PASS. And so in being obedient to Titus 1:9, I expose them for their heresy. If atheists and pagans and heathens had a billion-dollar campaign to tell the world that I Tim. 2:4 will never come to pass, then I would expose them as well!

Understanding the colossal and far-reaching implications of such a verse, many translators have tried to water down this Scripture. People have told me personally many times that this verse doesn’t mean that God really "will" save all men, but that He only "desires," "wants" "longs" and "wishes" that if only He could save all mankind, it would "please" Him. And I have four translations that use the words, "desires, wants, longs, and wishes" in this verse! NONE of which are a correct translation of this verse.

Consider for a moment if this verse had said in the original Greek manuscripts that, "God our Saviour Who desires and pleases that all men be saved." Would such a translation open the door to possible failure as most contend? Is there a verse of Scripture somewhere that declares that God can’t have or bring about things for which He only desires or pleases? IS THERE? WHERE? SHOW ME? Before we can believe that God will actually and factually DO WHAT HE SAYS, is it necessary and mandatory that He say something like this: "I swear on a stack of Bibles that I absolutely, positively will do, accomplish, and carry out 100%, totally and completely……such and such." So why make such unscriptural and stupid statements that if God only "desires or pleases" for something He can’t always have what He wants? After all, HE’S ONLY GOD!!!

Let’s now look at a few verses where “thelo” has to mean something that absolutely is going to be, rather than only wished for:

   1. “I will [thelo] not send them away fasting...” (Matt. 15:28).
       
      Jesus not only “desired” to not send them away, HE absolutely was not going to send them away famished.
       
   2. “To whom our fathers would [thelo] not obey...” (Acts 7:39).
       
      Is anyone so silly as to assert that Israel only “DESIRED” to disobey God, but maybe they really wouldn’t disobey?
       
   3. “What will [thelo] this babbler [Paul] say?” (Acts 17:18).
       
      Where these Greeks only interested in what Paul “desired” to say? If Paul would not actually say anything, but only “desire” to say something, then the Greeks would have to be mind-readers to know what Paul only “desired” to say, but maybe wouldn’t actually say audibly. No, they wanted to hear what Paul “would” say, not what maybe Paul “desired” to say.
       
   4. “For I will [thelo] not see you now...” (I Cor. 16:7).
       
      Was Paul really telling them that he had no “desire” to see them now?  Of course not, he had a very strong desire to see them, but it just was not possible to see them now.  Paul was clearly stating a physical hindrance to seeing them now rather than that he had NO EMOTIONAL DESIRE to see them now.
       
   5. “For it is GOD which works in you both to will [thelo] and TO DO...” (Phil. 2:13).
       
      When God’s Word adds “to DO” to the word “will/thelo,” it becomes a contradiction to say that the “will” part does not have to come to fruition. The “and TO DO” makes the “thelo/will” an absolute necessity rather than a mere wish.
       
   6. “If any would [thelo] not work, either should he eat” (II Thes. 3:10).
       
      Imagine Paul stating that if anyone has a ‘desire not to work” then he shouldn’t eat?  Why that would include just about everyone, even those who do work. Most people in the world have no “DESIRE” to work when the alarm clock goes off, but they go to work anyway, because they know that is the only way they “will eat.”
       
   7. “Yea, and shall that will [thelo] live godly in Christ Jesus SHALL suffer persecution” (II Tim. 3:12).
       
      Can we even imagine Paul telling us that if we don’t actually, but only desire, to live godly in Jesus, we will, nevertheless, suffer persecution?  Do people suffer persecution for what they “think or desire in their heart,” but don’t actually live out in their Christian walk? Absurd. “Thelo” will be fulfilled just as “thelemo” will be fulfilled.

Well, that’s seven, a good number to stop.

God is not obligated to even state whether he "wills" or "desires" something or not; all He has to do is SPEAK IT! God "SPOKE IT" in I Tim. 2:4; that’s all that is necessary for it to be accomplished. Are we so blind that we cannot see that it is blasphemy for mere mortals to diminish, disparage, degrade, and derogate the desires of VERY GOD into watered-down, wish-washy, unattainable, weak wishes? The SAME GOD Who created the entirety of the universe with its TWO HUNDRED BILLION GALAXIES EACH HAVING TWO HUNDRED BILLION STARS? And pious, carnal-minded theologians tell us that God WILL NOT accomplish His Own desires? !

Must we assume that if God had said: "I will [Gk: thelema] that there be light" that then there WOULD be light?" But had He said: "I will [Gk: telo] that there be light" that then there WOULD NOT be light? It is foolish and demeaning to try to relegate a POSITIVE statement of intent by God into a NEGATIVE and unattainable reality. All God had to say was: "LET there be light and there WAS light"! God is not obligated to preface everything that He says He plans do with such words as, I will…, I wish…, I desire…, It pleases me to…, etc. Has not the Lord also "spoken it" in I Tim. 2:4? All God has to do is SPEAK THE WORDS AND IT WILL SURELY COME TO PASS. Now then, are there any who doubt that I Tim. 2:4 ARE THE WORDS OF GOD? Then why do so many insist that it will NEVER HAPPEN? They have not a love of the Truth. They do not believe God. They do not believe Jesus Christ. They do not believe the Scriptures!

They are traitors of the Truth.

More proof: We have shown that God doesn’t need to use a strong word such as "WILL" in order for His word to be fulfilled. But on those occasions when God uses a word such as "pleases," "desires," or "wills," does not that word then contain within its meaning the possibility of negating God’s whole statement? No, absolutely NOT. If it merely "pleases" God to do something, it will be done just as assuredly as if He had "WILLED" it,

    "So shall my WORD be that goes forth OUT OF MY MOUTH [just as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else] it shall NOT return into me void, but it SHALL ACCOMPLISH THAT WHICH I PLEASE, and it SHALL PROSPER IN THE THING WHERETO I SENT IT" (Isaiah 55:11).

Here then is an opportunity for everyone to stand up and be counted. Is Isaiah 55:11 TRUE or is it FALSE or is it only sometimes true and sometimes false? The only negative in that verse is: "it shall NOT return into me void." That is the only thing that can NOT happen in this verse. Notice God’s Word, "SHALL go forth…," "SHALL accomplish that which I please…" and it "SHALL prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." This is not rocket science. This is 1, 2, 3, elementary deduction:

         1. "ALL Scripture is given by inspiration [Greek: God-breathed—out of His mouth] of GOD…" (II Tim. 3:16).
             
         2. I Timothy 2:4 IS " SCRIPTURE"!
             
         3. Therefore what God has inspired (breathed) in I Tim. 2:4, "SHALL go forth…," It is has gone forth for nearly two thousand years and is going forth over the whole internet on this very printed page that you are reading. It also "SHALL accomplish that which I please…," Is the word "will" weaker than the word "please"? And finally, it "SHALL prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

So here we have just one more Scripture that says God, SHALL, SHALL, SHALL, while at the same time Traitors of the Truth tell us that God, shall NOT, shall NOT, shall NOT!

So again I ask, if God only "pleases" that something prosper in the word that He sent fort to accomplish, shall it "prosper" or shall it not "prosper?" Theologians say if God only "pleases" that all men be saved, then THEY WILL NOT ALL BE SAVED, but God says if He "pleases" to do something, "…IT SHALL PROSPER in the thing whereto I sent it." Who ya gonna believe: men or GOD?

More proof: I Tim. 2:4 says that God "wills" that all mankind be saved. What determines God’s will? Answer:

    "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who works [operates] ALL THINGS after the COUNSEL of his own WILL" (Eph. 1:11).

Now then, will God’s "counsel" stand? Answer:

    "There are many devices in a man’s heart; nevertheless the COUNSEL of the LORD, that SHALL STAND" (Prov. 19:21).

Will God’s "will" be done both in the heavens and on the earth? YES:

    "Our Father Who art in the heavens, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. THY WILL BE DONE in earth, as it is in heaven" (Matt. 6:10).

More proof: When God speaks something, is He so weak and incapable as mortal men who make great boasts and are unable to accomplish their boast?

    "God is NOT a man, that He should LIE [do we think God LIES when He says that He WILL save all mankind in I Tim. 2:4?]; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not DO IT? Or has He spoken [as in I Tim. 2:4 and many other places], and shall He not MAKE IT GOOD?" (Numbers 23:19).

Well? Those of you who contend with your Maker: "Hath God SAID" in I Tim. 2:4 that He "WILL have all men to be saved?" Well then, "SHALL HE NOT DO IT?" (Num. 23:19). Has "He [God] SPOKEN" in I Tim. 2:4 and many other places, that He "…WILL have all men to be saved?" Well then, "…shall He NOT MAKE IT GOOD?" (Num. 23:19).

More proof:

    "…Let God be TRUE [Who says He "WILL save ALL MANKIND"], but every man a LIAR [who says He WILL NOT "save ALL MANKIND"]!

More proof:

    "Remember the former things of old: for I am GOD, and there is none else; I am GOD, and there is none like Me. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel SHALL STAND, and WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE [as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else]:

    Calling a ravenous bird from the east [Cyrus?], the man that executes my counsel [just as the king of Assyria] from a far country: yea, I have SPOKEN IT [as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else] I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS [as also in saving all mankind]; I have PURPOSED IT [as also in saving all mankind] I WILL ALSO DO IT" (Isaiah 46:9-11).

God says, "I WILL DO IT," and He will also do EVERYTHING ELSE that He has , said, declared, spoken, desired, counseled, willed, decreed, or pleased in His Word!

By the way, God NEVER, EVER "wishes" or "hopes" for ANYTHING! He "desires" things that absolutely are certain to come about, but God never wishes or hopes for things that may or may not come about! The very thought of God "hoping" for something, blasphemes His sovereignty!

Now then, how many of my readers still believe that God will NOT save all mankind as He says He "WILLS" in I Tim. 2:4? It is foolish and stupid to insist that God will not perform and fulfill and do His Own WILL in I Tim. 2:4. I have PROVEN it by the Scriptures. I have given you the absolute proof from both the etymology of words and the many Scriptures regarding the fulfillment of God’s will, pleasures, word, desires, etc., etc., etc. Anyone who denies that I Tim. 2:4 will be fulfilled also must deny HUNDREDS of other Scriptures as well. But yet I sense in my spirit a dozen carnal minds out there in computerland that are anguishing over a new approach to prove that I Tim. 2:4 will never be accomplished and that this verse is at best a never-to-be-fulfilled pipe dream of our Great Creator God and Saviour.

Consider this: Suppose I Tim. 2:3-4 did not say what is in our Bibles, but suppose it said the following: "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will NOT have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

Would not every single detractor who teaches that God will NOT save all humanity then use this Scripture to PROVE THAT GOD WILL NOT SAVE ALL MEN? YES OF COURSE THEY WOULD; YOU KNOW THEY WOULD! They would be delighted to show from the Scriptures a statement saying that God "WILL NOT" save all men? And this Scripture would then be the one most profound statements in all Scripture to back up their doctrine that all men will NOT be saved. This would be their "proof text" that God most assuredly WILL NOT (pardon my redundancy here, but I am attempting to make a point of major consequence) save all men.

Now then, the ONLY difference between the fabricated verse above and the real verse found in all Bibles in I Tim. 2:3-4 is the addition of the word "not." So if the addition of the word "NOT" would prove that God will not save all men, then the deletion of the word "NOT" would have to prove that God WILL save all men—this is axiomatic! So if this verse had said that God "WILL NOT" save all men, then it would definitely mean that all men will NOT be saved. I don’t think there is a theologian alive who would deny that! But here is the unbelievable irony of their teaching: since it says that God "WILL have all men to be saved" (according to theologians), this phrase also MEANS THAT GOD WILL NOT SAVE ALL MEN! Excuse me, but am I missing something here?

When Christians don’t want to believe that God will save all humanity, it doesn’t matter what God says. They will believe what they want, not what the Bible says.

If anyone believes that God’s statement that He "will" save all mankind really means that He "will NOT" save all mankind, then maybe they had better click off this site and listen to some Jack Van Impe tapes prophesying that according to his newly revealed knowledge of the length of a Biblical generation, Jesus Christ will return to set up His kingdom in the year 1996! Yes, you saw that correctly, I said NINETEEN NINETY-SIX! In 1990, when I heard Jack say that, I PROPHESIED that Jack didn’t have a clue as to what he was talking about. It is now, 2003! I’ll say this, however, Mr. Van Impe certainly has a lot of Scripture verses memorized—now if he only he knew their meaning. (Excuse my little diversion—just trying to relax your intense concentration for a moment with a little humor).

Imagine if I Tim. 2:3-4 really did say that "God will NOT save all men," and then I would try to argue (using the same stupid scholarship as theologians use) that this verse doesn’t really mean that God will NOT save all men, but that it means He only "DESIRES" that all men "NOT" be saved when in reality they WILL all be saved, even if God were to say He "will NOT" save all men. Would not my detractors try to laugh me to scorn over such inane reasoning? OF COURSE THEY WOULD! YOU KNOW THEY WOULD. EVEN THEY KNOW THEY WOULD. Well, guess what? The word "NOT" is NOT in this verse. So God really "WILL save ALL men!"

Here then is true Christian scholarship: If God will NOT save all men, then He will NOT save all men, and if God WILL save all men, then He also will NOT save all men!! Do you see now why it has become popular to say that: "You can prove ANYTHING from the Bible?" And HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of Christians do not see a problem with kind of inane and insane reasoning! Does anyone think that the word "HYPOCRISY" is too strong to describe the way God’s word is slanderously perverted to maintain such evil doctrines as eternal torment in a lake of fire for those whom theologians say God won’t save even though God says He WILL save them?


 
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Craig

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Re: God's Will
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2007, 06:53:11 PM »

Continued.........


Do you still believe that the "lake of fire" contradicts I Tim. 2:4, and that when God says He WILL save all men, what He really means is that He will NOT save all men, but will rather torture MOST men for all eternity in a lake of real fire? Is that what you still believe?

Let’s not neglect the first part of the sentence which begins in verse 3 of I Tim. 2:

    "For this is GOOD and ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our Saviour…"

That God will "have ALL men to be saved" is both GOOD and ACCEPTABLE in God’s sight. These verses do NOT say: "For this is GOOD and ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our Saviour; Who WILL NOT have all men to be saved, and WILL NOT have all men come unto the knowledge of the truth" now does it? Theologians tell us that the reality of this Scripture is that all men WILL NOT come into a knowledge of the truth and that all men WILL NOT be saved. THAT they tell us is the reality and truth of the Scriptures.

Now then, if the reality is that all men WILL NOT BE SAVED, but rather most men will be tortured in a literal lake of fire for all eternity, I ask: Is this "GOOD and ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our SAVIOUR? Again I ask: Is it "GOOD and ACCEPTABLE" that most of humanity be tortured for all eternity? If it is "GOOD and ACCEPTABLE" that God DOES save all mankind, then it CANNOT also be "GOOD and ACCEPTABLE" that God DOES NOT save all mankind! Am I going too fast for anyone?

I believe that our Christian friends have been once more painted into their little theological corner from which the only way out is repentance!

God says in I Tim. 2:3 that it is "good and acceptable" that all men come to a knowledge of the truth and that all men be saved. This is a fact. This is not debatable. We know for sure the answer to that question. However, theologians tell us that most men (and women and teens) will be tortured in a lake of fire for all eternity, so they will NOT all be saved. Hence my next question: Is it "good and acceptable" in the sight of God our Saviour that most of humanity be tortured in a literal lake of fire for all eternity?

If we say: "Yes," we blaspheme!

If we say: "No," then God is compelled to do what IS "good and acceptable!"

Does anyone have a third alternative to this question? Do we really believe the Scriptures?

I can give you much more proof on this one verse, but more proof is not what we need. What we need is FAITH! FAITH to believe God; FAITH to believe Christ; FAITH to believe the Word!

So that was my little "test verse" to see how many truly believe the Word of God and have a love of the Truth. If you will not and can not believe I Tim. 2:4, then what need have I to show you more verses that you ALSO WILL NOT BELIEVE? If you still believe that I Tim. 2:4 will NEVER be fulfilled, then you have just proven to yourself conclusively that you will NEVER accept ANY VERSE OF SCRIPTURE THAT DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOUR OWN PRECONCEIVED PERSONAL AND CARNAL DOCTRINES!

There are only two options for those who claim that I Tim. 2:4 will NEVER come to pass: (1) You must prove that this verse is WRONGLY TRANSLATED and has a different meaning from what is stated, or (2) You must confess that YOU REALLY DON’T BELIEVE that the Scriptures are the divinely inspired Words of God. You have now been painted into your own little theological corner, and the only way out is REPENTANCE! There is NO WAY AROUND this verse in I Tim. 2:4 (and a dozen just like it). I have book-ended this verse so that no one can Scripturally contradict it. Anyone who attempts to do so is a LIAR and attempts to make God a LIAR! Now then, with that said:

    "…and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev. 21:08)!

But know this: all liars enter the lake of fire, but after going through it, they emerge honest as the day is long! I will prove that! For those of you who still have a love of the Truth, let’s continue:

Now for all of those who insist that all of God’s Word must be taken literally, I have another problem verse for you. Jesus Christ said in John 6:63b:

    "…the words that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT and they are life."
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 11:38:29 PM by Kat »
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