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Author Topic: I need help and lots of it LOL  (Read 2945 times)

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debbysnotary

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I need help and lots of it LOL
« on: February 21, 2007, 01:56:28 AM »

I need to ask where in Rays studies does it say about adam n Eve OK let me ask more clearly
1.did Eve sin before she even ate the fruit? Im starting in genesis and studying my bible right in the begining and from what I read, i took it she sinned by thinking the fruit looked good, (not exact scripture) but she said it looked GOOD to me that is like wanting the better one ,something looked better than hers, ok i probally lost ya, hoping i can get a answer to that AND
when cain killed his brother Abel, it said God heard his cries from the earth, I understood that when we die we are dead and cant feel talk cry or anything, am i wrong ? or does only GOD hear our cries when death comes. Im confusing myself,
Im new at the Bible study thing, i went to church of Christ for few years but fell away and then i found Rays Site and somehow I opened my eyes and I knew he is right and very correct on the doctrine so here I am BUT I need help as i said im starting from the begining of my Bible and reading ..
anyone point me on the site for these answers please.. I need to understand this so i can teach my grandkids the right doctrine thanks
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Robin

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2007, 04:16:04 AM »

Here is Ray's answer to your first question. I'll see if I can find anything on Cain.

http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html

IN THE BEGINNING/IN THE GARDEN

What was the first historically recorded choice of our first parents? We read of Mother Eve that:

"…she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat…" (Gen. 3:6).

But was this the first choice and the first sin attributed to our Mother Eve? No, it wasn’t the first. It was not even the second, or the third choice.

It is generally taught that Adam and Eve were spiritually perfect immediately after their creation, seeing that it says,

"And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good…" (Gen. 1:31).

Never mind the fact that even poisonous snakes were also "very good." Of course everything God made was "good." It was, in fact, even "perfect"—perfect, that is, for the purpose for which it was created.

But did our first parents have perfect and good spiritual character of heart when God completed them? Absolutely not! Far from it! They were as carnal-minded as any two people who have ever lived.

The Scriptures show us that Eve committed every known category of sin there is, before she ever ate of the forbidden fruit. This one should knock your socks off. It knocked mine off when I first discovered it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SIN BEGINS IN THE HEART

Man’s mind is not the birthplace of sin. And certainly man’s will is not the originator of sin. God did NOT say: "O that there were such a WILL in them..." (Deut. 5:29). If we will just believe, our Lord tells us plainly where sin originates:

"And Jesus said, Are ye [all of you] also yet without understanding?

Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever enters in at the mouth goes into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth FROM THE HEART; and they defile the man.

For out of THE HEART proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashed hands defiles not a man" (Matt. 15:16-20).

Need I remind any that all of the above thoughts and deeds are sin?

So what pray tell does all this stuff have to do with Mother Eve’s sin in the garden? A lot—everything. The Apostle John classifies all sins into just three categories under one heading.

LOVE NOT THE WORLD—THREE CATEGORIES OF SIN

"Love NOT the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father IS NOT IN HIM. For [for means ‘because’] ALL that is in the world,

the lust of the FLESH,

the lust of the EYES,

and the pride of LIFE,

is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passes away, and the lust thereof: but he that does the will of God abides for ever" (I John 2:15-17).

Notice that "…ALL that is in the world…"—all the sins of the world, have their origin in one of these three categories of sin that proceeds "out of THE HEART." Not out of the "will" or out of the "mind," but "out of THE HEART." The "will" and the "mind" are subject to the "heart," and not the other way around. The heart is not subject to the will, neither is the heart subject to the mind, but rather both of these are subject to the birthplace of all human functions—the HEART!

Simply and unarguably, Jesus states as a fact, that all evil thoughts and sins proceed OUT OF THE HEART.

Now, with all that said, let’s prove once and for all that Mother Eve and Adam were (1) NOT spiritually perfect in any way shape or form, BEFORE they actually ate of the forbidden fruit, and (2) neither did they sin and then partake of the forbidden fruit through the operation of something called "free will."

"And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD… Gen. 3:6:

"…lust of the FLESH…" (I John 2:15)
 
and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES… Gen. 3:6:

"…lust of the EYES…" (I John 2:15)
 
and a tree to be DESIRED TO MAKE ONE WISE Gen. 3:6:

"…the PRIDE OF LIFE" (I John 2;15)

Eve committed EVERY CATEGORY OF SIN THERE IS IN THE WORLD, before… BEFORE she actually ate of the forbidden fruit.

ALL of Eve’s evil thoughts of pride, vanity, lust, greed, disobedience, and finally thievery proceeded NOT from Eve’s supposed "free will," but rather from out of her HEART. And the only reason these sins could come out of her heart is because THEY WERE ALREADY IN THERE FROM THE BEGINNING. BEFORE Eve actually ate of the forbidden fruit, she committed every category of sin in the world. And need I remind us that we were also, ALL IN ADAM, before he ate of the tree (I Cor. 15:22). Will we deny our own eyes and the Scriptures we have just read?

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Robin

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 04:50:52 AM »

I found an email and Ray mentions Gen. 4:10

    If you believe that life and consciousness do not exist after death according to Ecclesiastes 9:5 how would you explain Isa. 14:9-11 Ezek: 32:21and Rev.6:9-11, comparing scripture with scripture. God Bless Eddie
     

    Dear Eddie:
    Some things can be "explained," but may not be able to be "proved." I can tell you that all of these Scriptures are in "figurative" rather than "literal" language, but that does not means that you will believe me, anymore than when I showed "plucking out one's eye or cutting of one's hand" in accordance with Christ's admonition concerning offensive sins, was believed by those who read it. I received comments that these admonitions were indeed LITERAL, even though they conceded that we are not to LITERALLY pluck out our physical eyes, etc.
     
    How, for example does "pomp" go to the grave (or sheol)? It is, of course, FIGURATIVE. If these verses in figurative language are literal, then we must concede that such verses as Gen. 4:10 are literal:  "...the VOICE of your brother's BLOOD cries unto Me from the ground."  Someone might actually claim that blood is immortal, and although spilled on the ground, and completely dried up, nonetheless, is still alive and......AND POSSESSES VOCAL CORDS AND CAN SPEAK!!
     
    God be with you,
    Ray




Scroll down a little to read LITERAL OR SYMBOLIC?

http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 05:13:40 AM by M.G. »
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Chris R

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2007, 08:41:03 AM »

I need to ask where in Rays studies does it say about adam n Eve OK let me ask more clearly
1.did Eve sin before she even ate the fruit? Im starting in genesis and studying my bible right in the begining and from what I read, i took it she sinned by thinking the fruit looked good, (not exact scripture) but she said it looked GOOD to me that is like wanting the better one ,something looked better than hers, ok i probally lost ya, hoping i can get a answer to that AND
when cain killed his brother Abel, it said God heard his cries from the earth, I understood that when we die we are dead and cant feel talk cry or anything, am i wrong ? or does only GOD hear our cries when death comes. Im confusing myself,
Im new at the Bible study thing, i went to church of Christ for few years but fell away and then i found Rays Site and somehow I opened my eyes and I knew he is right and very correct on the doctrine so here I am BUT I need help as i said im starting from the begining of my Bible and reading ..
anyone point me on the site for these answers please.. I need to understand this so i can teach my grandkids the right doctrine thanks

Hello debbie,

I have found that studying the scriptures in some chronological order, does little to help our understanding, Read all of Rays site, www.bibletruths.com 

Once you find one spiritual truth, nothing can, or will, contradict that truth. Gods peace to you on your journey.

Chris R
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snorky

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2007, 06:13:59 PM »

Read Ray's stuff as well as your Bible, but concentrate on the articles on Ray's site especially the Lake of Fire series. I feel as if this series basically explained nearly everything in the Bible in one way or another. When you read the Bible yourself Ray's articles will help you to get over "man's interpretation of the Bible" perhaps more strongly than anything else. By reading Ray's stuff it leads you into a mindset that only the Bible can interpret other parts of the Bible. That way you can only conclude that all is of God's Plan, the literal stuff, the figurative stuff, and both together. You may find that the only way you can understand the Bible is to "deprogram" yourself from the faulty interpretations you have gotten in churches or from televangelists or other faulty sources.--Deb aka snorky
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gmik

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2007, 10:46:41 PM »

Read Ray's stuff as well as your Bible, but concentrate on the articles on Ray's site especially the Lake of Fire series. I feel as if this series basically explained nearly everything in the Bible in one way or another. When you read the Bible yourself Ray's articles will help you to get over "man's interpretation of the Bible" perhaps more strongly than anything else. By reading Ray's stuff it leads you into a mindset that only the Bible can interpret other parts of the Bible. That way you can only conclude that all is of God's Plan, the literal stuff, the figurative stuff, and both together. You may find that the only way you can understand the Bible is to "deprogram" yourself from the faulty interpretations you have gotten in churches or from televangelists or other faulty sources.--Deb aka snorky

I agree Deb.  I can't say enough about the LOF.  Take notes!!!
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Jackie Lee

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2007, 12:54:02 AM »

Read Ray's stuff as well as your Bible, but concentrate on the articles on Ray's site especially the Lake of Fire series. I feel as if this series basically explained nearly everything in the Bible in one way or another. When you read the Bible yourself Ray's articles will help you to get over "man's interpretation of the Bible" perhaps more strongly than anything else. By reading Ray's stuff it leads you into a mindset that only the Bible can interpret other parts of the Bible. That way you can only conclude that all is of God's Plan, the literal stuff, the figurative stuff, and both together. You may find that the only way you can understand the Bible is to "deprogram" yourself from the faulty interpretations you have gotten in churches or from televangelists or other faulty sources.--Deb aka snorky

I agree Deb.  I can't say enough about the LOF.  Take notes!!!
I read part one again tonight I am not as quick as some to understand.
I will read it again to glean a bit more.
While I am here I would like to ask why is things that meant so much to me just don't seem to matter as much?
Is this a part of judgement?
Maybe a part of refinement?
I hope it is ok to ask in this thread?

Thanks.... Jackie

Thanks... Jackie
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snorky

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2007, 01:42:44 AM »

You said, "While I am here I would like to ask why is things that meant so much to me just don't seem to matter as much?"

Maybe that's because the truth matters more and you are starting to see the big picture, and man's traditions are the "stubble" you are seeing through.--Deb aka snorky
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Kat

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2007, 10:12:12 AM »

Hi Jackie,

I agree with Deb  :)
When God chooses you and opens your eyes, He puts the desire for the truth in you.
He is the one that works in your mind to hunger and thirst for the word.
I believe it is the 'part of refine' you spoke of.

Mat 5:6  "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

The 'part of judgment' I would think, is when His spirit is in you, it chastens you and makes you feel bad, even if you have a wrong thought, and I realize it, the very second I say something wrong, it is the way the spirit works in our conscious, I believe.
This is overcoming the world.  That's why it 'just don't seem to matter as much.'

1John 5:4  For everyone who has been born (begotten) of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Jackie Lee

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2007, 03:08:35 PM »

Thanks Snorky and Kat I thought this was what was happening but needed reasurance since I was not sure...Lol
 Another thing I used to love debating politics now I have no interest at all.
 Last night during a phone conversation politics was brougt up and I said I no longer talk politics at all.
She said what is the matter did someone tell you off, I said no God don't want me too.
She had not much interest in chatting after that.
Anyway I do feel his drawing and showing me things that just don't matter at all like I once thought.
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hebrewroots98

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2007, 01:06:12 AM »

Mg,Thank you so much for posting that excerpt on Adam and Eve having hearts that were not perfect before they had eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and of evil!  I needed to hear this.  I know I had read that info., but, somehow I had overlooked it while reading everything else from Ray over time.  This topic just fascinates me. 

2 weeks ago, an aquaintance of ours had asked us to read and critique what he had written in his 'new book' that was not finished yet; after I read his book, I was appaulled at the fact that he had become a KABALLIST in the short time that we (as families) had been separated (over the past few years since worshipping together in the same congregation with them).  However, he spoke in his newly written book of how Eve was perfect BEFORE the eating of the fruit; the typical response from the denominationalists.  (I will make a copy of this teaching of Rays' and give it to him...if the Lord wills this to happen) b/c DH and I had made him SO RAGING ANGRY simply b/c of our negative, yet biblically truthful responses of his new book that he was so proud of.  He now will not even look at us, let alone talk to us.  (real loving of him, eh?)  Please pray for Gods' will to be revealed to him in this area of his life; right now he is totally opposed to this truth of how Adam and Eve were not perfect before they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and of Evil.   :)
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debbysnotary

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2007, 02:56:53 PM »

 :) wow thanks for all the replies, i kinda had a feeling about this when i was back in church of Christ on adam n eve, something just kept bugging me about it, like i thought she looked and saw the fruit was good and i thought to myself that has to be sin so she sinned before she ate the fruit and i never went back and reread or gave thought to it, coz i figured the preacher/evangelist would know more than I did, and boy was I wrong!! My eyes have been opened for sure, i am going thru some strange changes in my life too on things that used to be real important to me and now they arent, everytime i get a bad thought, i find myself so sorry i thought that and right then I pray for forgiveness, honestly I am confused on why am i guilty all the time on alot of things i think, why am i thinking these things so so much, is it satan that is tempting my thoughts, I honestly dont know BUT its driving me nuts, I know my life has changed alot in the past year or so since reading this site and quittting the church. Even though my health was so so bad and still is, I have a rare disease called PAH pulmonary arterial hypertension, no cure. will need a double lung transplant n heart before much longer. But even with this disease . iI still quit church coz it just didnt feel right to me, the rules,the tithing (when i didnt have much money period. living on SSi paying rent,utilites,ect) the only luxury i had was my internet n computor.. It just seemed it was all about the money.. The Elders ect would say God will provide what you need if you do your tithe, or you have to tithe and not worry about anything if you really trust in the Lord then you will NOT cheat him then they would preach about the lady who cheated God annia??? cant recall name sorry. Ok im rambling forgive me.. Have a truely wonderfull day and its so wonderfull to be here with real Bible truths seekers.. thanks for letting me here!!! 8) 8)
I am gonna start rereading lake of fire series and (take notes along with my Bible) im not that smart but i think if i really study and with God with me I can understand it, I know i understand alot more now then i did when i went to church steady.
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gmik

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2007, 03:32:15 PM »

God Bless you Debby.  I am so glad He led you out of babylon and over to us!!!  God is so Good.  Keep us informed about your health.  I will be praying for you.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2007, 06:15:06 PM »

Hello Debbysnotary

It is good what you say and it made me smile that  : I am gonna start rereading lake of fire series and (take notes along with my Bible) im not that smart

...just remember, "smart" is not what God looks for. God does not call the "qualified", he qualifies the called....

Enjoy your studies!....

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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DWIGHT

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2007, 06:32:51 PM »

Hi Deb,

Just remember something; it's not how smart we are or how many degrees we have.....it's how much do we see that counts.  And we can only see what God reveals to us.  Like Arcturus said, He's qualifying us...He's the chooser we are the chosen.  God bless you! ;)

I'll be praying for you through your difficulties with your health.

Dwight
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hebrewroots98

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2007, 07:10:31 PM »

Dbebsnotary,
Hello there!  I haven't met you yet, but, I used to be  Buckeye and I was a sold out Church of Christer many years ago, and now, I am at the BT forum everyday learning something new and getting to fellowship with TRUE brethren here...as well as with people who take God's Truths more serious than most all other people in the world!  Amen! :D...so you and I definately do have things in common.  Where in Ohio are you from and I can relate to just how you are feeling right now, b/c when I had com e out of the CofC, noone loved me anymore.  That hurt alot b/v I depended on them a s my Godly family and they let me down.  It is all fine now, b/c God allowed those type of thigs to hapen to me ino order to bring me to where I am today.  I can tell you alot about the fact that most women that I have known whom have come fro that denomination has had sever mental issues to have to overcome.  They tend to put a tremendous gui;t trip on you if you are an independent thinker!   ;) hang in there, you will be fine, let us minister to yoiu here with this forum family that you have just been blessed from above to have! :D  As soon as you correct in your mind all of the errors that you have been taught, then you will feel better!  GOED WILL SHOW His Truths, just read Rays stuff, as he is used of God to show us in a simple way as to what the big picture really is!

Much love sister! 
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iris

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Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2007, 11:17:37 AM »

Hi Debby,

Just read all of Ray's papers and look up the scriptures,
and pray to God to help you understand.


Iris
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SandyFla

  • Guest
Re: I need help and lots of it LOL
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2007, 04:37:57 PM »

My eyes have been opened for sure, i am going thru some strange changes in my life too on things that used to be real important to me and now they arent, everytime i get a bad thought, i find myself so sorry i thought that and right then I pray for forgiveness, honestly I am confused on why am i guilty all the time on alot of things i think, why am i thinking these things so so much, is it satan that is tempting my thoughts, I honestly dont know BUT its driving me nuts ...

Hi Debby,

I had to smile when I read this because I've been there. :) Sometimes I think I'm STILL there, LOL. God is opening your eyes to His truths. It can get a bit confusing sometimes, especially when you've been brainwashed with lots of "church junk." Just keep reading Ray's stuff and asking God to direct your heart and mind.

I used to think all those "bad thoughts" were put in my head by Satan. Now, I realize that if God is in control, He ALLOWED Satan to put those thoughts there. How can I feel guilty about that, since it was out of my hands? Of course, I try not to dwell on them, but that's not always possible. Oh well ... at those times, we just need to trust that God knows what He's doing to/with/in/through us.

Sandy
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