> General Discussions
Jesus and the tomb
Kat:
Hi Arcturus,
The valley of dry bones appears to me to be all of humanity that have ever live, except the elect.
I think this is the email you were referring to.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,201.0.html -------------------------
Dear Matt:
There are only two resurrection to immortality.
The first is for the chosen elect overcomes explained in part in (I Cor. 15).
All others--children, criminals, mentally challenged, the many called but not chosen, etc.
In the case with children we are told: "There shall be no more thence
an infant of days, nor an old man that has not filled his days: for the
child shall die [spiritually die to his carnal mind purged through judgment] an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old [and not yet purged of his carnal mind through judgment] shall be accursed [until he IS thoroughly purged]" (Isa. 65:20).
God's judgments are both light and harsh. (See Luke 12:45).
Many will freely enter God's judgments and will then enter into God's realm sooner. The harden criminals will have to be "THROWN into this fiery judgment of the carnal mind and human will which hates the ways of
God. (See Rev. 20:15).
Sorry, but this is a huge subject requiring hundreds of pages to cover the details.
God be with you,
Ray
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Just one more peice to the puzzle :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Amen Kat
truly a precious piece to add!
Here is what I see....quoting Ray....Many will freely enter God's judgments and will then enter into God's realm sooner. ...INTO GOD'S REALM....The realm of Christ and His Elect....? The realm of the Spirit?
Peace to you sister
Arcturus :)
Kat:
Hi Arcturus,
Yes, God's realm is His spiritual kingdom.
I think Ray is saying that there will be many that will enter freely/willingly to accept Christ's judgment. Because it won't take long for people that do not live really wicked lives to be purged and brought to right understanding. These will be those who get a few stripes and actually I can think that there will be those that get no stripes at all, think of the babies raised up.
Some will take a really long time before they are cleansed, I suppose, and then they have to learn the truth too. I long process for some, but we all will finally be all in all.
mercy,peace, and love
Kat
skydreamers:
Hi Guys, a quick reply while my son is at school and my little one is napping.....stolen moments you know! Love my little ones, but boy they can be a handful. God sure is teaching me a lot through them...
Arcturus you said:
--- Quote ---Will there be human representatives who will mediate between heaven and Earth. Who will Govern between earthly Nations and Christ and His Elect in the Kingdom to come? Will these representatives be Abraham, Isaac and Jacob…?
--- End quote ---
This is very interesting, I hadn't thought of this before. I wonder however, if "human representatives" would be needed though, since though spirit is invisible it is apparently capable of "appearing" as human forms (eg, the various forms Jesus took after his resurrection). So it's possible that the elect and Jesus will appear visibly to the physical people (if that is the case). I know we'll find out when the time comes, but it fascinates me nonetheless.
Is it possible that the elect are raised spiritual, but the rest of humanity are raised physical (as in Ezekiel) after which they experience the Lake of Fire, through which they will eventually be transformed into spiritual beings....is this the second death?? But then really, what would be the point of that, unless as Arcturus pointed out, babies (for example) need to still live a full "fleshly" life and then be transformed. Boy, this can get confusing. Lots to think about!!
As Kat, pointed out, there will likely be varying degrees of purification amongst people and some will be entering the "realm" of God sooner than others. Perhaps this is why people will be "gnashing their teeth" as they behold Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who will enter the Kingdom far sooner than most of humanity. But this leads me to a question: do I remember this correctly...did Ray once say somewhere that there are NO old testament people who will be part of the elect in the first resurrection?? I can't remember if he said that or where I am getting this from...If this is true, than Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob come up in the second resurrection having to go through the Lake of Fire?? This would truly be bizarre, these great men of faith! But God does work in mysterious ways.
I suspect there will be a lot of Christians who will have a harder time of it in the Lake of Fire than some secular people, since many have clung to their "eternal hell" doctrine. Will they first experience God as they perceived him in their lifetimes before the truth is revealed to them? Because if so, this would be a terrible fate. To actually come up in the second resurrection experiencing and believing for a time that you have ended up in your believed fabled hell!! Now, that would be scary!! These scriptures come to mind:
2 Samuel 22:27 ESV
27 with the purified you deal purely, and with the crooked you make yourself seem tortuous.
That would be enough to make anybody grind their teeth!
So Kat, if the valley of dry bones is all the rest of humanity (besides the elect) are they raised to a physical body which is still immortal in that through purging etc. the physical person is transformed to a spiritual person? I once read a study by Eby where he explained the process that materials go through when they are burned...a firelog burning transforms into other elements...it doesn't disappear, it just changes form. And notice that fire always burns upward (towards the divine). I thought this was a beautiful description.
Oh, oh...my little one is awakening...gotta run...sorry, i hope I've made sense...i know i was all over the place! :-\ :)
Peace, Diana
Kat:
Hi Diana,
As far as I am seeing this, the elect will be in the first resurrection, the dead will be raised as spirit, the elect still living will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. I think it is like you said Diana, they will be like Christ, so they can appear in the flesh as need be.
The rest of humanity are raised in the flesh physical, it is the second death, spiritually.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
They have to go through the Lake of Fire and die to the flesh, and have all the things in verse 8 burned out. But they will be immortal, because they will not have a physical death again.
I believe they will be resurrected the same as they were before they died, and have the same personality and same way of thinking, and then they go to the Lake of fire, as Ray said in the email;
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Many will freely enter God's judgments and will then enter into God's realm sooner. The harden criminals will have to be "THROWN into this fiery judgment of the carnal mind and human will which hates the ways of God. (See Rev. 20:15).
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Those entering freely I think are like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as you can only enter the kingdom through Jesus Christ and they never knew Him, so they must go through the Lake of Fire, as all Old Test. people will.
Joh 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters in by Me, he shall be saved and shall go in and out and find pasture.
The prophets of the Old Test., Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and any that did not live terrible evil lives, so they will recieve few stripes and have a shorter time there, but I guess there will be all varying lengths of stay there, depending on how much has to be burned out of them.
Luk 12:48 But he not knowing, and doing things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For to whomever much is given, of him much shall be required. And to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
All not in the first resurrection, will have to go into the Lake of Fire. They must first be purged of all their carnal ways, then they must be taught the truth and live an obedient life, just as the elect are doing now. For some the length of time will be short, and then they will be changed just as those still living at Christ's return, and they will enter the kingdom as Spirit. But only the ones that are in the first resurrection will 'reign' with Christ.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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