GRATITUDE

[Deborah-Leigh]

Ray writes in Praying by Gods Rules

No man has ever in the history of the world received an answer to a prayer for something from God that God did not already have in His plan to give him.

I deduce from this : ALL the good things I have received, God already had in His plan to give me! Did I realise this? NO!

The good things I didn't ask or pray for that came to me, IS from God who already decided to bless me. Did I realise that? NO! On both counts...very good reasons to repent!!!!And so I do! Even this is from GOD!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[josh]

Arcturus,

I liked your post and thought I would add a few scriptural witnessess...

Do all good thing (ie: answered prayers and even unanswered prayers) come from God?

James 1:17
"Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow."

Do our prayers introduce a new thought into God's mind or was it His plan all along to give us the things which we have received?

Malachi 3:6
"For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed."

Even our future salvation is not our own work, but a gift from God... which he prepared beforehand, that we should walk in it!

Ephesians 2:8-10
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --
not because of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

We all have reason to be grateful everyday!

God's Peace.
Josh

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Josh

....good to see you again and Amen to what you added Thank you!

What comes to mind through your post is that we walk in the good works God prepared! You know, when that happens then we can begin to see ALL circumstances as being the plan of God for us and THEN as in Ray's brilliant teaching on praying by God's rules, we can start to see that it is God's plan for us to see that it is BETTER to see ALL circumstances as God's will than to REJECT God and HIS WILL or to live in opposition to God's design for our life!

How many of us pray for what we need or what we think we need or believe others need and we know not what we do or what we ask?

Just yester day I recieved the following SMS prayer request : hello my friend how r ...luv to u both please pray 4 my friend penny she has given her life to the Lord however she is being harrassed by a consistent report that they might have to amputate her leg and infection keeps on reappearing. Agree with us in prayer that that all that is brought to nought.

I replied

may we come to know and see His perfect will arising up as victory over this trial. love to you and penny. please keep me posted.

She will not have a clue what I meant! If penny looses her leg then my prayers were not strong enough or I am not saved or am backslidden!   If Penny's leg is saved then I will be forgotten and her prayers will have been the potency for healing but the same thing comes out either way....This person does not see the SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[YellowStone]

Yes Josh, "We all have reason to be grateful everyday!" We should never remain silent!

Psa 30:12 To the end that [my] glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever.

Do we not also have reason to sing praises everyday too?

Great Post Arcturus, for without God we are/have nothing.

Love in Christ,
Darren

[YellowStone]

Arcturus, you wrote:

You know, when that happens then we can begin to see ALL circumstances as being the plan of God for us and THEN as in Ray's brilliant teaching on praying by God's rules, we can start to see that it is God's plan for us to see that it is BETTER to see ALL circumstances as God's will than to REJECT God and HIS WILL or to live in opposition to God's design for our life!

How many of us pray for what we need or what we think we need or believe others need and we know not what we do or what we ask?

Realizing that all is of God, including the good and the bad, the lessons that were easy and the ones that were horrid; allows us all to see that because of them has us here today at Bible-Truths. Where we are learning the truth with Ray, growing daily and fellowshipping with like minded brothers and sisters all over the world.

We cannot be thankful while ever we are focused on what we do not have or what someone has that we want. Rather, we should consider always just what it is that God has given us in this world to be thankful for. Family and/or friends who love us dearly. Sunrises and sunsets that crown the horizon so magnificently that diamnonds pale in their shadow. He has given us all we need, and as David said: "I shall not want" for nothing.

But He gives us more than that. Much More!

Pro 28:20 A faithful man shall abound with blessings: but he that maketh haste to be rich shall not be innocent.

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

Whom among us cannot affirm that before being shown (sometimes dragged to) Rays Bible-Truth site, has not begun to really appreciate from the bottom of their heart, the wonderful blessings God  has bestowed upon us. Either spiritual or physical, we have so much to be grateful and thankful for.

Thank you for starting such a wonderful and positive thread.

Your brother in Christ,
Darren

[Kat]

Hi Arcturus,

Prayer has been something that I felt necessary since I was a young girl.  I had not a clue about spiritual matters, but I did know their was a powerful God in heaven and I wanted to let Him know my needs (as though He didn't know). 
When I was older I continued to pray, but my prayers took on a different tone as I became very influenced by the world.  Most of my prayers were so selfish, I did not know how to pray or even who I was praying to really. 

Now, I understand that we have to suffer many things in this life, and our prayers should always be, Thy will be done in all things.

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it. (CLV)

Even the difficult things are for good, maybe we do not comprehind them at this time.
Now that I have a better understanding of pray, I hardly ever ask for 'things' anymore.  I thank Him and pray for others.
We learn through the hard things with endure, I have excepted that and know it is all worth it.
God is my whole life and His will is my pray now 

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[TimothyVI]

Ray writes in Praying by Gods Rules

No man has ever in the history of the world received an answer to a prayer for something from God that God did not already have in His plan to give him.

I deduce from this : ALL the good things I have received, God already had in His plan to give me! Did I realise this? NO!

The good things I didn't ask or pray for that came to me, IS from God who already decided to bless me. Did I realise that? NO! On both counts...very good reasons to repent!!!!And so I do! Even this is from GOD!

Peace to you

Hi Arcturus,

Does that mean that we accomplish nothing by praying for friends who are in need, physically or otherwise.
Because God either has pre-planned for that person to get well, or not get well, are our prayers of no use?

Or could God perhaps be thinking, it is my plan to make this person well IF someone prays for them.

I am not sure I understand the reason for praying for the well being of other people.

Tim

Arcturus

[TimothyVI]

Hi Arcturus,

I don't know why my earlier post came out like it did.
Here is what I asked.

Hi Arcturus,

Does that mean that we accomplish nothing by praying for friends who are in need, physically or otherwise.
Because God either has pre-planned for that person to get well, or not get well, are our prayers of no use?

Or could God perhaps be thinking, it is my plan to make this person well IF someone prays for them.

I am not sure I understand the reason for praying for the well being of other people.

Tim

[josh]

TimothyVI,

If you don't mind, I'd like to share a few thoughts with you...

You state:

"Does that mean that we accomplish nothing by praying for friends who are in need, physically or otherwise.
Because God either has pre-planned for that person to get well, or not get well, are our prayers of no use?"

A wise philosopher once said... "Prayer does not change God, it changes the man who prays."

What we accomplish (or should I say God accomplishes in us) through prayer is our own growth into conscious agreement with God's will/plan for our own life and for the rest of His creation.

God has already declared the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10), it is Him who is working ALL THINGS (even prayer and answered prayers) according to the counsel of His own will (Eph 1:11) and it is Him who works in us both to will (He gives us the desire to pray) and to do (causing us to carry out the action ie. prayer) His good pleasure.(Philippians 2:13)

Our prayers are not of "no use" they are part of the predetermined PERFECT will of God.

"Or could God perhaps be thinking, it is my plan to make this person well IF someone prays for them."

"If" is a dangerous word to attach to God's actions... it assumes God reacts to man's action... which places man in charge... God is God, He and only He is in charge.

"I am not sure I understand the reason for praying for the well being of other people."

There is nothing wrong with expressing your desire for someone's well being in prayer, as long as above all else that your desire is for "THY WILL BE DONE."

Hope this helps.
Josh

[hillsbororiver]

Prayer has been something that I felt necessary since I was a young girl.  I had not a clue about spiritual matters, but I did know their was a powerful God in heaven and I wanted to let Him know my needs (as though He didn't know). 

Kat,

I sure remember that as well. When I was a kid (especially under 8 y/o) praying at night was automatic, I believed wholeheartedly and my simple prayers seemed to be answered often, it was only for things like a sunny day tomorrow or to go see Grandpa & Grandma or even just to not have any bad dreams.

As I grew older I also grew more selfish in my petitions and my answer rate went south. There may be a lesson in there somewhere.

Joe
   

[Deborah-Leigh]

Thank you all for the valuable witness to the Sovereignty of God to which I would like to add:

Ray wrote this in his teaching on Praying by God's rules and Tim this might also further help to answer your questions.

Now then, if it was God's intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, and God inspires you to pray for that favor then it will surely be given to you. If on the other hand, if it was not God's intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, then no amount of praying will cause God to grant it to you.

We see in Kat's experience that this is what Kat suffered first hand. Thank you for sharing  your precious memory with us Kat.   Jesus also asked God to let the cup pass from Him. This teaching that Ray gives to us all is not taught in Christiandom! It should be because many suffer under the mis-understanding that God is remote, removed and indifferent and not responsible for us!  In  instances of prayer not getting God to do what we want, God's intention is perfectly established through His plan and His reward is prepared for those He chooses.

Ray also writes : No prayer has ever changed God's plan or purpose in any way whatsoever.

This is not meant to deflate or bring appathy to  prayer life! On the contrary! Note, Ray also writes :

When God wants to answer someone's prayer, the first thing He will always do is inspire (cause) that person TO PRAY. How can God answer a "prayer" if someone doesn't "pray"? god can bless us and do favors for us, but God cannot answer our prayers, if we don'tpray. That is why I get excited when I feel inspired to pray, as I am encouraged that God is getting ready to bless or favor me in some way.

This may appear to be a contradiction but it is not.....

God draws us to turn to Him and we just have to come to the realisation of when it is HE dragging us to turn to Him or when He is inspiring confidence in Him in us. We also need to know the difference and when it is us trying drag HIM into agreement with our percieved needs or agendas!

This is why this subject is so important to contemplate, meditate and ask/pray God for His Wisdom so we can understand HIM and come to know HIM and revere His Sovereignty and trust His love for us.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Chris R]

Hello Folks,

Just as sure as God ordains the things in our life from the beginning, he also "causes" us to pray for  these things. So in effect it is God that causes us to pray for those things which he gives us in the first place.

Chris R

[skydreamers]

This is such a great thread, thank you Arcturus for starting it!

For me, there was an initial period after my eyes were beginning to open that my mind went blank when I tried to pray for myself or others about anything specific...I didn't know how to do it anymore!  I didn't know how to ask.  I talked to God all the time in my head about things that I was learning or about His word etc, but when it came to people and their needs I was at a loss.  It took me a little time to see what all of you are talking about.

Ray's paper on prayer made it that much clearer.  I completely realize that God's will WILL be done, regardless of what I pray, so I strive to be in agreement with whatever God has in store for me or others, and just ask that He give us the strength to endure.  It is natural I think to want to pray for the health and happiness of those we care for, and I still do that.  But I do it with the acknowledgment that this health and happiness will come when God ordains, even if it means it won't happen until after the Lake of Fire.  Health is just another definition of the Greek word for "salvation".  And we know that everyone will eventually receive this.

It is comforting to know that afflictions in this life really are for our benefit.  So when a loved one is going through a trial I am secretly excited for them.  Not that I enjoy their suffering or want this for them, but I know that God is moving in their life, so I pray for them that the trial will bring them that much closer to the "peaceful fruit of righteousness". 

Realizing that all is of God, including the good and the bad, the lessons that were easy and the ones that were horrid; allows us all to see that because of them has us here today at Bible-Truths.

Amen to that!

What we accomplish (or should I say God accomplishes in us) through prayer is our own growth into conscious agreement with God's will/plan for our own life and for the rest of His creation.

Josh that is so profound!

God draws us to turn to Him and we just have to come to the realisation of when it is HE dragging us to turn to Him or when He is inspiring confidence in Him in us. We also need to know the difference and when it is us trying drag HIM into agreement with our percieved needs or agendas!

Yes, there is a huge lesson in this Arcturus!

If God is inspiring us to pray in the first place, then even if He influences us to pray for something He knows will not come to pass, He is teaching and disciplining us through this.  Kat, you did not get angry at God because He didn't save your baby, but there are many that would have.  Confusion and even anger at God are likely much needed and necessary steps in certain people (as only God knows exactly what each person needs to go through to be brought to His likeness).  I see it as part of the "experience of evil" that humbles us.  While I have never been angry at God either (that I can remember) there was a time when I was indifferent to God.  Boy, that was an empty yet evil experience! 

But as you said Darren, all of the things in our lives has brought us to this point.  I strive to lace each prayer with gratitude and practice this feeling in my heart, because I know a day may come when I'll need to hold fast to this attitude of gratitude during tribulations yet in the future.

Peace,
Diana

[dogcombat]

I can echo what's in this thread.  I noted a similar sentiment in the Testimony link called "My Selfish Prayers".  The hard truth is not praying for OUR will but GOD'S WILL.

Ches

[PKnowler]

I've enjoyed reading this thread you all, thank you!

Darren you wrote: Realizing that all is of God, including the good and the bad, the lessons that were easy and the ones that were horrid; It is good when we can trust God even when bad things happen.

Kat, Thanks for sharing your story with us. It is difficult to loose a baby especially in late pregnancy. It must have made it even more difficult to think that if you had enough faith when you prayed that God would heal your baby. It's good that you weren't angry with God though; I'm surprised that you weren't with that teaching.

It reminds me of my experiences with prayer when I was in my early 20's. I had 2 children at the time a boy and a girl, that's all I was going to have. But when my youngest boy was nearing 3 years old I started having second thoughts, thinking maybe we should have another child. I started praying about it. I was so torn about it because of the condition of the world. I believed we were in the end times also because I was married to an alcoholic.  I questioned whether it would be wrong to bring another child into the world.

I agonized over this for months but I couldn't get the idea of having another child out of my mind but I really wanted to do God's Will. I brought it up a lot at prayer meetings and would ask for prayer. Finally someone (who was infertile) said why don't you just trust God! If He wants you to have another baby then you will have another baby. Wow! What a novel idea! I thought about it and decided to surrender and trust God. Well I had a healthy baby girl! After that I felt convicted to let go and trust God with my womb. There were other contributors along the way that solidified my decision to let go and trust God.

One of the biggest contributors that changed my way of thinking at that time, and helped me to trust in the sovereignty of God in my life, was a book I read called "Hind's Feet on High Places" by Hannah Hurnard. It's a Christian Classic. I have only recently found out that Hannah Hurnard also believes in UR. The book is an allegory story that parallels spiritual truths. God used it to change my life.

Diana what you wrote: God knows exactly what each person needs to go through to be brought to His likeness.
That sums up the book "Hind's Feet on High Places". I highly recommend it.

Well when I got pregnant with my 4th child, my second pregnancy since trusting God. I found myself fretting a lot about the baby. I was praying compulsive prayers for the baby's health. God confronted me that it was a sin not to trust Him. I felt like I needed to lay the baby on the altar just like Abraham did to Isaac. I fretted about it. No, I thought, I can't. I wanted the baby too much. I can't let go. I know that sounds foolish because I had trusted Him in the first place with my womb and the baby was a gift from Him. Well I finally did offer up the baby and ALL my children up, that whatever happened- my children are HIS and that I need to TRUST HIM.

Well everything went well in the pregnancy. The baby was very active and healthy. Well when I was 4 days overdue I didn't feel the baby move so I called my midwife and she had me drink orange juice and said she would be right over. When she got there I still didn't feel the baby move. She listened and there was no heartbeat. My baby had died and they didn't know why. There was no indication that anything was wrong in all my pregnancy. I just had to accept it. I can't tell you the difference it made to me that I had turned this baby over to the Lord and trusted Him. Yes, it was painful and I grieved but I also felt His love and comfort like never before! What was tragic turned into a spiritual experience filled with God's Grace and Mercy because He taught me to trust Him. A scripture that comforted me was "were your treasure is there will be your heart also" God was helping me store up treasures in heaven as I trusted in Him.

[gmik]

Oh Paula.  That is so sad.  thnk you forsharing w/ us.  I don't understand those things, but there was a purpose for your little girl and you will be reunited.

[DWIGHT]

Prayer for me these days has turned into worship and praise.  Diana said she didn't know how to pray anymore..didn't know what to ask for or just had a blank.  I can relate to that because we just get into a repetition mode and that just won't satisfy us or the Lord.  Kat made a list of all the names of Jesus in the scriptures in alphabetical order and I printed them out.  They are such a blessing, you can take one letter a day and use it to pray with and you won't believe the blessing that will flow into your heart.  Try it tonight or tomorrow; just praise Him for being the King, or the Lord, or the Saviour..etc.  God will fill your toungue with His words not yours, and scriptures will fill your mind that He has engraved upon your heart...it's like a sweet smelling savour to the Lord and you can tell that it pleases Him.  "Oh for a thousand tongues to sing, my great Redeemers praise..."

In Him,

Dwight

[skydreamers]

Hi Dwight, your post made my cry (in a good way!).  Thank you for sharing that idea...I will definitely be doing that.  Intensive prayer is such a special time with our Savior and I love the idea of making it ALL about Him!!

God bless you,

Diana 

[gmik]

Dwight or Kat---where is that list???

[DWIGHT]

Hi Gena,

It's on General Discussions page #11 under the title of Names and titles of Jesus.

Love, Dwight