bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Pastor's view on tithing  (Read 6410 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

keys2heaven

  • Guest
Pastor's view on tithing
« on: March 14, 2007, 05:05:19 PM »

I renounced my membership in the Nazarene church a little over a month ago. One of those reasons is that I don't agree with the doctrine of tithing that is a staple of many, if not all, of today's big denominations. Our family still attends and, as of yet, have not felt the need to physically leave. The church has a website that includes discussion boards. One of the members started talking about tithing and soon the pastor gave his views on tithing. I know this has been covered extensively and please don't flame me for posting this. I'm posting what the pastor stated in reference to tithing below. He does mention some things that I don't think Ray covered in his series and wanted feedback on this. I'll highlight these areas in red to make it easier to see and save space in this post.


<<BEGIN>>
I want to share with all of you a little more background about giving/tithing etc.

Both Old and New Testament contains numerous teachings about tithing, sacrificial giving and offerings.  On more than one occasion, Israel neglected to tithe and the Levites left the sanctuary for the fields in order to support themselves by tilling the soil as a result the sanctuary fell in disrepair.

Reforms took place under Hezekiah ( 2 Chronicales 31:5, Nememiah (Neh. 13:12 and Malachi (Mal. 3:8, 10) so that the people gave their proper tithe, the sanctuary was restored and the priests and Levites were able to give themselves wholly to the Law of the Lord once again.


At the heart of tithing is the idea that the earth is the Lord and all that is in it. (Ps. 24:1)  By giving a tithe we acknowledge the Lord's ownership of the land and produce.  Thus Judah was robbing God (Mal. 3:8-10) not of material things since they already belonged to God but of the recognition that indeed these things were His exclusively.  in that thought - when one does not give what God has already given them - - - it is failure on our part to give God credit, praise and honor for providing for us.  Our job, our health, our home, etc. all come not from ourselves but from God.  Tithing is seen as a means of saying thanks to God for His generosity (Gen. 28:20-22)

In reality the giving of tithe helps involves all of us in God's redemptive work. 

Some conclude that because the word tithe is not found in the New Testament - - that this means one does not have to give.  What is interesting is that as Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount examined the Law - he raised the bar or standard if you will - in each circumstance.  He often said - you have heard it said - but I say to you - - - and then He shared the kingdom principle.  This certainly seems to me to be a strong indication that Jesus woudl not advocate a reduction in one's acknowledgement of our thanks to God or our need of being a part of God's redemptive work in the universe.

Today we give

Because we are aware that we are God's slave or servant (Romans 6:16, I Cor. 7:22, Eph. 6:6, I Peter 2:16.

Because our possessions are not our own or to be used as we may like. ( I Cor. 6:20)

Because as a good steward we are charged with handling the master's goods and that we will have to give an account for what we have done with what we have been given.

We also give because of the model of Jesus ( 2 Cor. 8:9) and the power of God's Spirit within us. 

As a result the giving that comes today is not to be done with reluctance - - or by feeling forced to give - - -nor is it limited to one's tithe - - Rather, it is to be done cheerfully, voluntarily, systematically and with open-ended generosity (I Cor. 16:1; 2 Cor. 9:6-9)
<<END>>

« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 12:16:55 AM by keys2heaven »
Logged

rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 05:54:50 PM »

keys2heaven,

  Thanks for sharing this with us.  I really enjoyed reading it.  I am confused at the end of it though and wanted some clarification.  I have no problems with offerings, but is this advocating tithes or not?

  Thanks.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire
Logged

keys2heaven

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 06:02:15 PM »

I can't and won't post all of the discussion here. But, yes, the posts leading up to this were all on the topic of how "tithing" allowed God to bless them and wa a test of their faith. I read the pastor's post as reinforcement for the doctrine of "tithing". I am bothered by his statement of tithes being in effect before the Levites started taking tithes. Can someone explain what he is saying in this?

There also seems to be a lot of assumptions in his post. He mentions this "What is interesting is that as Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount examined the Law - he raised the bar or standard if you will - in each circumstance.  He often said - you have heard it said -but I say to you - - - and then He shared the kingdom principle". O.K., but how does this relate to tithing? I see no supporting scripture to back up this statement as it relates to tithing. Is this just his opinion?

So, is this the philosophy of most pastors; to use scripture out of context and then give generalized opinions in order to reinforce unscriptural concepts?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 06:28:54 PM by keys2heaven »
Logged

rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2007, 06:06:11 PM »

keys2heaven,

  Thanks for that clarification.  That really helped.  Thanks for the promptness that you showed in posting this post.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2007, 07:05:33 PM »


So, is this the philosophy of most pastors; to use scripture out of context and then give generalized opinions in order to reinforce unscriptural concepts?


Yep.

Everything "Christianity" teaches is out of context with;

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they
are life
.


The following is from 'Tithing Is Unscriptural Under The New Covenant'

Objections to my paper range from simply quoting the prophet Malachi sent to the priests and nation of Israel: "Wherein have we robbed Thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse…." While others who can find absolutely no Scriptural authority for Christians to tithe, invent clever little doctrines like this:

"Tithing was a form of worship to God, and since we still worship God, we must still tithe."

I will answer this one in one sentence: Since burnt offerings were a form of worshiping God, and since we still worship God, must we still offer burnt offerings to God? ... Ridiculous.

Part II of this paper covers the Malachi prophecy more thoroughly as it concerns the subject of tithing.


http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html
Logged

rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2007, 07:19:48 PM »

Joe,

  I really, really, enjoyed reading the paper on tithing by Ray.  That was truly a liberating paper, I never feel guilty that I do not tithe, becuase I could not afford to tithe.  I cannot tell you how many times, my heart would sink becuase I could not afford to tithe and I did not tithe.  I never felt so judged when week after week the plate would be passed, and I would pass it down, and feel my fellow congretants judging me and not thinking that I was in God's will and such.  It finally wore me down so much, I would leave during the tithing part of the service and if I had to stay in the room, I would not touch the plate but refuse to take it.  I had never felt so much shame and guilt in my life when the pastor would repeat and say, how can you expect blessings in your life, when you do not give to God week after week, and this would be said with him looking into my eyes and shaking his head.  I never felt so embarassed when called down like that.

  I am so thankful to Ray's paper, becuase I am liberated and now can enjoy giving offerings when I can.  God knows my heart and it is so nice to stand no longer condemned for my inability and unwillingness to tithe.

  My heart goes out to the elderly and poor people who are tithing so much and to see themselves in their bondage choking out their very life makes me thankful that I never descended that far.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire
Logged

Jennie

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2007, 09:16:54 PM »

I think it is the place of your heart in the giving instead of thinking about the "have to" of tithing. You can give in many ways not just money.
Logged

gmik

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2007, 09:44:32 PM »

Exactly.  Why do people think we aren't a giving, loving people, because we don't "tithe".  That doesn't mean we don't help when we can.  I used to have the awful mindset of after we have given our tithe, buddy, I am not giving another red cent!!  My hubby's aunt needed some help, monthly, but it was too hard.  Now, we give her cheerfully and lovingly every month.  Guess what??  Now we have an actual relationship w/ her-phone calls, mail etc.  We even went to see her over Christmas and normally we would not have.

One of my awful memories is that my father in law couldn't afford a "nice" nursing home when he got alzheimers. With the money we gave to those bling-bling pastors we could have helped HIM out!  What a blindness we had in babylon.

I just got an e mail from someone very close to me accusing me of being a lazy, ne'er do well, since I don't believe in tithing!!  They have no clue what I do or don't do-just assuming that no tithing equals no giving!  I am not responding to them at this time. We'll see.  One time I would have been so hurt!!!  Now, I feel bad for them and pray that God will lead them.
Logged

rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2007, 09:48:10 PM »

Gena,

  Ahh, that's a cute picture.  How sweet.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire
Logged

gmik

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2007, 10:01:49 PM »

Thanks! :D
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2007, 01:35:11 AM »


Hi keys2heaven,

Quote
I am bothered by his statement of tithes being in effect before the Levites started taking tithes. Can someone explain what he is saying in this?

Gen 4:3  And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD.
Gen 4:4  Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering,

These offering might be the precursor to the tithe he was referring to.  But it you will take notice that these offering were of the produce and flock.

I have the first 2 scripture that were in your post, and all others I could find to show what the tithe was in the OT.  Something that you will notice here, in these scripture that show what should be tithed, is it's produce of the land and of the flocks.  All scripture that refer to tithes is talking about produces and flocks, and none ever memtion money as a tithable commodity.

2Ch 31:5  And as the command spread, the sons of Israel brought plentifully of the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field. And the tithe of all things they brought in abundance.

Neh 13:12  And all Judah brought the tithe of the grain and the new wine and the oil into the treasuries.

Lev 27:30  And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's.

Lev 27:32  And concerning the tithe of the herd or the flock,
Deu 12:17  You may not eat within your gates the tithe of your grain or your new wine or your oil, of the firstborn of your herd or your flock, of any of your offerings which you vow, of your freewill offerings, or of the heave offering of your hand.

Deu 14:22  "You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year.

2Ch 31:5  As soon as the commandment was circulated, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of grain and wine, oil and honey, and of all the produce of the field; and they brought in abundantly the tithe of everything.

Neh 13:12  Then all Judah brought the tithe of the grain and the new wine and the oil to the storehouse.

And one from the NT even, still speaks of the produce.

Luk 11:42  "But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

The other scripture he used is simply stating to bring in the tithe, which would have been well known to be of the land and flocks, as the scripture prove.

The tithe in the churches is the preacher's bread and butter and of course they have been taught it is right and believe it should be your money and will push their manmade tradition with gusto.

Hope this helps  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Logged

keys2heaven

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 12:48:07 PM »

Thanks Kat,

So, when the pastor says "By giving a tithe we acknowledge the Lord's ownership of the land and produce", how can he or any church rationalize that by giving a tithe in the form of money we are acknowledging the Lord's owership of the land and produce when those tithes were on "land and produce". It seems like a huge leap to me. When did it become popular to make this assumption and why do pastors or any church say things like this. It's a huge guilt trip to put on people. So, if members don't tithe but "give" they aren't acknowleding the Lord?
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2007, 01:07:56 PM »


Hi keys2heaven,

I think you are seeing it now.  It's so messed up.  The tithe was of the produce of the land, but the church has just converted that over to your money, how convenient for them.   But the scripture gives no such example of that. 
Now you can give an offering, but that is your own decision how you spend your money.
That would just be supporting the church and their false religion to me.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Logged

GODSown1

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2007, 10:06:46 PM »

Hey alL
        WelL! to me GOD doesnt want ur money! He wants ur Heart! & Soul, to me He just wants us to LOVE! Him & all others as We would want for ourselves, I really beleave that GOD! doesnt want our money He can get that wheneva He wants, well thats my Opinion n e way lol!
                           muchLOVE!! Pera

 I dont like it wen people place GOD in a class, HE is the Creator!!! & He says what He wants in return LOVE!! & all to LOVE all
    Takecare!!!!
Logged

GODSown1

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2007, 10:11:36 PM »

Hi Anne
           To me U answered it, GOD! isnt a GOD! that will make U feel as U have for not giving Hes the GOD of LOVE!

    muchLOVE!!!! Pera
Logged

GODSown1

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2007, 10:16:40 PM »

Hi Gena
          Yep U said it also GOD! would perfur U to Give to the needie, NOT! to a big massive building so that it get bigger lol! Well again thats just my Opinion haha!
                                             muchLOVE!!! Pera
Logged

gmik

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2007, 10:55:22 PM »

Pera, yes that is just what the world needs....yet another million dollar church-building.....NOT!!

To care for the widows and orphans is true religion!!
Logged

GODSown1

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2007, 01:18:00 AM »

lol! Amen to that sister!
much muchLOVE!! Pera
Logged

Bev

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2007, 04:18:35 AM »

Quote
I never felt so judged when week after week the plate would be passed, and I would pass it down, and feel my fellow congretants judging me and not thinking that I was in God's will and such.

This is how organized christianity operates. By peer pressure and by putting you on the spot. I believe this is robbing folks, because you're manipulating them to do things against their will. 2 Timothy 1:7 - For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Making one feel self conscious among peers I believe is putting you in fear or insecurity. They're clever cats out here.   
Logged

Bev

  • Guest
Re: Pastor's view on tithing
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2007, 04:23:14 AM »

Quote
I just got an e mail from someone very close to me accusing me of being a lazy, ne'er do well, since I don't believe in tithing!!

This question is for everybody because I honestly need to know. Did Jesus or any of the apostles ever believe in or require a tithe?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.085 seconds with 24 queries.