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Abraham's Sacrifice of Issac - Why?
GODSown1:
Hi, Yep!!!,
I agree with Dwight, GOD had already told Abraham that he will have a son to Sarah & he will be the Father of many nations, it was his great Faith in GOD in what He had told him, so this is why I believe he had no hesitatin because he just new Issac would be spared, Well dis b my Opinion lol!,
muchLOVE!! Pera
Robin:
I've been trying to get some words out on this and just can't seem to do it, but here are some scriptures.
God sets his chosen apart. Physically then and spiritually now. Everything that is not of God must die. Maybe someone can put this in better words than I can right now. To me it is another parable. No idols. No false teaching. No carnal mind. It all must be destroyed.
Deu 20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
18That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God
Deuteronomy 7
2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
1 Kings 11:2
Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
TimothyVI:
--- Quote from: Sorin on March 23, 2007, 10:36:32 PM ---
--- Quote from: TimothyVI on March 23, 2007, 05:08:49 PM ---Hi Jay,
I too struggle with verses in the old testament that make God appear like
an egomaniacal tyrant. If I thought that God was commanding me to do something
that was completely immoral. I would have to question whether it was really God, or satan deceiving me.
Satan is an excellent deceiver, in order to believe that a command is from God, I must discern if it is true to His character,
Look how many people there are today that still kill others because they think that God
told them to. If they had a better understanding of God, they would know that He
could not be telling them to do such a thing.
If God told me to murder anyone, I would say, get behind me satan.
I wish that Ray would discuss more about the terrible things that God was supposed
to have done, and commanded in the old testament.
By the way, how do you think being tied to an alter with a knife at your throat affected Isaac?
Tim
--- End quote ---
Not true. God did tell the Jews to murder many people in the OT, including women and children. In fact, he told them to kill everything that breathes.
Deu 20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee [for] an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
--- End quote ---
I understand that Sorin.
All of those stories in the old testament which show God to be a vengeful, murdering, genocidal God, are
the very scriptures that I struggle with.
If God never changes, then what happened between the time of the old testament
and the new testament? How did the God that told his people to kill every man, woman and child,
to rip babies out of their mothers wombs, become the God that told us to love our enemy?
I must admit, I don't understand. That is why I would like someone with a deeper spiritual
understanding than I, Ray perhaps, help me to understand.
Perhaps the entire bible is a parable.
Tim
hillsbororiver:
This is an interesting thread with many good observations from Darren, Dwight, Kat, M.G. and all who posted. I am just going to add a few observations.
Abraham knew that Isaac was a miracle child born to a barren woman, a gift from God. Abraham saw first hand how God created Isaac's life, owned Isaac's life and that God could take it away and restore it once again. Abraham showed faith in the most extreme fashion, as a parent it is easier to imagine and accept our own death than it is our child's death. Abraham was willing to make the ultimate (parental) sacrifice because he had faith that God could and would restore it at the resurrection.
Let me ask a question from a different perspective, would we, do we want our children to die to the flesh and become spiritual creatures? When we share the Truths of His Word (take the Sword to them so to speak) and set an example of godliness are we not slaying our children to the world? Are we not doing this in the hope that they will lose their carnality and have it replaced by His Spirit?
As far as the destruction in the OT goes we must remember the spiritual message contained within these "atrocities" bringing to mind that Israel represents spiritual Israel, the elect who will be a part of the Lake of Fire burning out all the carnal nature of the unconverted souls.
We have gone round and round with this before, when we look at the OT scriptures that speak of destruction and look at them with the mind of man we are tempted to ask ourselves;
Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Unless we look at these OT examples with spiritual rather than natural eyes we lose the true meaning;
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Destroy or destruction seems to have been translated from many original Hebrew words, I will post some of them below;
H4229
מחה
mâchâh
maw-khaw'
A primitive root; properly to stroke or rub; by implication to erase; also to smooth (as if with oil), that is, grease or make fat; also to touch, that is, reach to: - abolish, blot out, destroy, full of marrow, put out, reach unto, X utterly, wipe (away, out).
H7843
שׁחת
shâchath
shaw-khath'
A primitive root; to decay, that is, (causatively) ruin (literally or figuratively): - batter, cast off, corrupt (-er, thing), destroy (-er, -uction), lose, mar, perish, spill, spoiler, X utterly, waste (-r).
H5595
ספה
sâphâh
saw-faw'
A primitive root; properly to scrape (literally to shave; but usually figuratively) together (that is, to accumulate or increase) or away (that is, to scatter, remove or ruin; intransitively to perish): - add, augment, consume, destroy, heap, join, perish, put.
H3772
כּרת
kârath
kaw-rath'
A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication to destroy or consume; specifically to covenant (that is, make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces): - be chewed, be con- [feder-] ate, covenant, cut (down, off), destroy, fail, feller, be freed, hew (down), make a league ([covenant]), X lose, perish, X utterly, X want.
H4889
משׁחית
mashchîyth
mash-kheeth'
From H7843; destructive, that is, (as noun) destruction, literally (specifically a snare) or figuratively (corruption): - corruption, (to) destroy (-ing), destruction, trap, X utterly.
H3423
ירשׁ ירשׁ
yârash yârêsh
yaw-rash', yaw-raysh'
A primitive root; to occupy (be driving out previous tenants, and possessing in their place); by implication to seize, to rob, to inherit; also to expel, to impoverish, to ruin: - cast out, consume, destroy, disinherit, dispossess, drive (-ing) out, enjoy, expel, X without fail, (give to, leave for) inherit (-ance, -or), + magistrate, be (make) poor, come to poverty, (give to, make to) possess, get (have) in (take) possession, seize upon, succeed, X utterly.
There is more there and this word deserves study keeping in mind how through the LOF process spiritual Israel will (with Christ) totally and completely eliminate all carnal thoughts, actions and deeds from every creature. Also, that God has the power and authority to give life, form the circumstances in our lives and to take life as He wills and pleases, all according to His plan of creating immortal, incorruptable Sons and Daughters.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
LittleBear:
I'm not sure, but maybe I can put some of my rambling thoughts here.
Aren't the things that happened in the old testament a type of things in the spiritual? So if Abraham was a type of the Father, and Isaac was a type of God's Son, then Abraham's sacrifice would have been a one time deal never to be repeated again, just like Jesus was the one sacrifice for all mankind.
I don't think that God would tell us to physically kill anyone.
Also, as M.G. says,
--- Quote from: M.G. on March 24, 2007, 03:32:10 AM ---I've been trying to get some words out on this and just can't seem to do it, but here are some scriptures.
God sets his chosen apart. Physically then and spiritually now. Everything that is not of God must die. Maybe someone can put this in better words than I can right now. To me it is another parable. No idols. No false teaching. No carnal mind. It all must be destroyed.
Deu 20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
18That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God
Deuteronomy 7
2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
1 Kings 11:2
Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
--- End quote ---
All these things that God commanded to kill in the physical, we are to kill in our lives so that nothing comes before us and God. It is now in the spirit.
This is how I understand it so that I can make some sense of it all. But I have to admit, it is hard to understand.
Ursula
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